donut
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 08:08 AM |
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4age phase 1, 2 or 3?
Ok what's the difference? I am looking on the Fensport website and there's a list of engines each seem to be about £100 dearer than the
other. Which 16v would be best?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Prez
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 08:44 AM |
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If I remember correctly the basic differences are:
Phase 1: Big Port TVIS 16 Valve Head, Six Bolt Flywheel
Phase 2: Big Port TVIS 16 Valve Head, Eight Bolt Flywheel, Seven rib block with oil squirters
Phase 3: Small Port non TVIS 16 Valve Head, Eight Bolt Flywheel, Seven rib block with oil squirters.
Then of course there's the 20V engine.. but if you intend to do some tuning and modification its better to stick to the 16V
If you are going for a 16V go for the Small Port Phase 3 eveytime if you can get one. Good Strong block and internals, and the small port is better
for all stages of tune up to about 200 hp. Bill Sherwood has an excellent page discussing all the info you need to tune these engines:
http://www.billzilla.org/carindex.htm
There are other differences to do with bearing journal diameters etc but I couldn't tell you that off the top of my head!
Cheers
Adam
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 08:45 AM |
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Phil Bradshaw's pages here are the best reference I've come
across. You should also read Bill Sherwood's pages here and for that matter have a look at his
whole site for some entertaining thoughts and projects.
Note that these sites both refer to Aus-market models.
Cheers,
Eddy
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 08:46 AM |
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Beat me to it Prez!
Eddy
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Prez
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 08:50 AM |
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Sorry Eddy
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02GF74
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 09:42 AM |
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I found a usedful US page about these; maybe on of those mentioned. Unless I am mistaken, the 20V was not fitted to UK cars; ofcourse you can import
hem but £££ and then specific parts will aslo be ££££; shame really.
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donut
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 09:46 AM |
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Great, thanks.
Incidently is there a bhp increase with each engine. Phil bradshaws hompage only says "Power is increased to 100 kW and all engines are MAP
sensored" on the 3rd gen engine paragraph. Whats 100W?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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donut
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 09:55 AM |
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Sorry, read further and says
Phase 1 130ps@6600rpm
Phase 2 120ps@6600rpm
Phase 3 140ps@7200rpm
Acording to Fensport, prices are:
Phase 1 £275 +vat
Phase 2 £375 +vat
Phase 3 £475 +vat
The diffrerence in power between phase 1 and phase 3 is just 10bhp for and extra £200 +vat plus the phase 1 has more torque. SO the best value for
moner would surley be the phase 1. yes? no?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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mookaloid
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 10:21 AM |
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I think you can get more power for less money by sticking to the pinto and tuning it up a bit.
Just my 2p worth
Cheers
Mark
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Prez
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 10:36 AM |
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If you plan on tuning the engine the Phase 3 is the way to go. I picked one up for about £350 from bpj services near hereford. The Phase 1 block has
only 3 ribs I think and I'm not sure how well the internals would stand up to any significant increase in hp. A further advantage of the 4A-GE
is that it is fairly light for a car engine, and they like to rev.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 11:04 AM |
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As Prez says.
If you want a cheap reliable standard engine then buy an early one and use the TVIS inlet manifold, ECU and wiring loom.
However if you intend to use throttle bodies or carbs then the narrow/small port head on the late engines is far superior.
The wide/large port heads were designed to be used with the variable inlet manifold.
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Prez
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 11:08 AM |
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bimble,
how much was your alloy sump? I may be after one of these myself
Cheers
Prez
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donut
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 11:17 AM |
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I have no intention of tuning the engine apart from the R1 carbs. So would a phase 1 be ok?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Prez
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 11:41 AM |
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I guess it would be ok. I would still reccomend shopping around for a phase 3. If you can get one for £300 - £350 it's probably worth it for the
extra hp. Just my 2p worth
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donut
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 11:44 AM |
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Does the sump need shortening? or whatever??
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 02:39 PM |
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4AGE sumps.
The one I have is from BPJ and its approx £400. Its well engineered (actually over engineered) but is heavy and quite fiddly to install. Mine leaks so
I'm replacing it soon see below.
Mel at RAW has a similar sump in testing at the mo but just needs a few changes before full production (its hand made not cast). Again it'll be
over £300 but lighter then the BPJ sump.
He can also do a low profile steel sump again hand made from scratch (a little heavy again). Not sure of the final price but must be £150-200
Finally there may be another alternative as I'm getting Mels fabricater to shorten (by an inch) and widen my standard 20V sump to my own design.
The mods are minimal and retains almost 90% of the factory design which is good to start with.
I may be able to post pics next week if it goes to plan.
Because the 4AGE is compact you don't necesarrily need to shorten the sump but an inch off it makes it quite a difference. RAW's demo car
has a standard 20V 4AGE engine and sump with an Acusump to protect against starvation.
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ChrisJLW
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:38 PM |
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If you're after cheap 4AGE's keep an eye out on imoc.co.uk, mr2dc.com and the uk toyota owners club. There's always a few going,
infact there's a 74k one on IMOC and I think a couple of 80-90k ones on the DC site.
HTH
P.S The Phase 2 didn't always come with oil squirters, none of the UK MR2 Phase 2s have them. Not sure about the post 89 Corollas though.
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway.
But more, much more than this,
I did it side-ah-ways.
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welly_59
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 10:32 AM |
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yep its me selling the 74k 4age on imoc. Dont want much for it either and will be sold with everything needed to run. If anyone is interested then
just lemme know
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 09:21 PM |
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Chris is correct about the UK spec phase 2 not coming with oil jets under the pistons.
I dont think anyone mentioned the oil return from the head is only on the phase three.
I have a phase 2 which is very smooth and very quick.
Mookaloid,no disrespect mate but you have probably never been in a 4age car,you cannot compare a tuned Pinto to a 4age.
Pintos dont rev to 8000 rpm,thats a massive difference.
Rob Lane had a 150 bhp 1700 tuned crossflow which he swopped for the phase 3 128bhp 4age,there was no comparison as the 4age was in a completely
different league.
The other point someone did mention is that the big ends are bigger on the phase 2 and 3,2mm bigger I think.
AS I have already hinted to Donut, the phase 2 is fine if you keep the standard injection and as bimbleuk has mentioned the phase three head is a must
for the carbs or throttlebodies due to the ports.
Another point is be very careful about using other peoples designed sumps as some of you know I trashed my bottom end on the Elvington hairpin at the
end of 2004 due to copying a sump from a company already mentioned,although I think they have altered the design since.
The 4age will fit without chopping the sump if needed.
I have now use a standard sump with one inch chopped just above the horizontal baffle plate,this is because I have lowered and pushed the engine as
far back as possible and kept the standard tall TVIS manifold.
Hope this helps ,Dean........
[Edited on 10/1/06 by DEAN C.]
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 11/1/06 at 08:49 AM |
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Good point about the head oil return Dean C
The early 4AGEs can suffer from oil pooling in the head due to poor drainage. The later engines are better but can still be improved. The 20V 4AGE
seem to have the problem solved.
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Pete Jordan
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 08:08 PM |
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4AGE engines and parts on Ebay
Hi,
I've recently read this thread and thought some of you might be interested in the guy who is advertising 4AGE engines and parts, including
4AGE/type 9 gearbox conversion bellhousings on Ebay. Here's the link:
Link
I'm bloody annoyed I've already bought my bellhousing from Raw otherwise I'd have tried them myself.
regards
Pete
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