larrythelathe
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 02:57 PM |
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contesting a red light
OK i got a fix penalty notice yesterday for running a red light.
I really dont believe i did run a red light .
I was third in a que of traffic, guy at the front fail to move when it went green.
When he did start moving i checked the lights(still green) So i move off in my old(norrowed and rather slow) transit van. I get throuh and clear of
the lights when a police car pulls me over.
They imformed me i jumped a red light.
After they had a filled the ticket out i asked em nicley how they could see my light was red as they were at 90 degs to my light set. The lady officer
then jumped down my throat telling me there light was green when i went pasted. And yes could also see my light set.(in realy brit light)
I later went back with my father and there is no way you could of seen my lights.
Know i really do feel i did not jump a red (if i did i would just pay the fine)
Does anyone know what would happen if i went to court. Theres no picture.
Can i ask the police to get the timing of the lights checked?
as i feel i am admitting guilt thro fear of going to court.
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:00 PM |
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i would object, you crossed your line on amber lets say and due to the slow nature of your vehicle you spent some time clearing the junction -
perfectly allowable.
However, the police wont be happy. They will probably lie if it comes to it 
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larrythelathe
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:09 PM |
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thats the problem
if i were to go to court would it just go 'the 2 officers say you so did you did!`
but i don't to admit as i feel it to be wrong and the be honest makes me feel a little sick.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:27 PM |
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First thing to do is check the road markings are in correct and not worn out, any ambiguity at all and you have a good defence.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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larrythelathe
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:33 PM |
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brand new layout
it been completely redone in the last month
including lights that never used to be there
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robinj66
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:34 PM |
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Sorry Joel but that's not quite right.
You have to clear the junction before the light goes red.
There is case law concerning HGV's with long trailers who have been found to have been at fault because the rear of their trailer didn't
clear the junction in time, even though the light was green when they started the manouvre
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robinj66
Sorry Joel but that's not quite right.
You have to clear the junction before the light goes red.
There is case law concerning HGV's with long trailers who have been found to have been at fault because the rear of their trailer didn't
clear the junction in time, even though the light was green when they started the manouvre
No way is that right, otherwise why do box junctions exist?
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robinj66
There is case law concerning HGV's with long trailers who have been found to have been at fault because the rear of their trailer didn't
clear the junction in time, even though the light was green when they started the manouvre
you may be right, but how is an HGV driver to know if the green light is about to go amber, to ensure he doesnt linger beyond red? Sounds a bit
sketchy to me. 
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iiyama
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:50 PM |
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Shouldnt enter a box unless your exit is clear. Shouldnt really go through an amber light either.
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:52 PM |
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Larry, your first task is to time the lights at this junction. See how long it is between your light changing to amber and the next set going to
either amber or green. Sometimes the two ambers are nearly simultaneous, in slow junctions.
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
Shouldnt enter a box unless your exit is clear. Shouldnt really go through an amber light either.
there are two types of box, in one type it is as you say, in the other you can enter if you are waiting to turn (maybe right turn only). Depends, i
believe, if the edge is dashed or constant.
Ditto amber light, the code probably says that amber means stop if you can. Hence larry must be sure he states that he entered on green!
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caber
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 04:38 PM |
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Check and photograph view from location of police car if they could not both have seen your lights changing then you have another item for your
defence. If they lie in court you produce evidence proving they lied you stand a better chance!
You should fight it if you have enough evidence, police are getting worse at nicking people for no good reason and not nicking people who cause real
trouble like burglary and damage to property
Caber
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smart51
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 05:00 PM |
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Strictly, if the light is on amber, you should stop if it is safe to do so. If your transit is slow and you'd only started to move then it
would probably be safe.
There was a story on the BBC recently about a set of policemen who said in court that a 70's reliant 3 wheeler was on 2 wheels with sparks
coming from the bodywork at over 70 MPH. It was proved in court that all 3 of these things were lies. Sadly, the Police are not all the honest
upstanding people they should be.
If you believe you are right, try and prove that the police were lieing by checking that they could see your lights etc. otherwise, pay the fine.
The work of 2 policemen in court versus yours is not a risk I'd like to take on.
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DavidM
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 05:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Strictly, if the light is on amber, you should stop if it is safe to do so. If your transit is slow and you'd only started to move then it
would probably be safe.
I agree with this. Sorry, but I think in court you'd lose because you should have stopped at amber.
Court usually ends up with a minimum of double the fine, if found guilty.
David
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tks
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 05:49 PM |
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Dunno in UK but in NL if a police officer says its Yellow it is Yellow....and you make no change.
Also its not nececary to see your light to be able to fine you for driveing through amber/red.
and thats whats all about this.
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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TangoMan
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 06:49 PM |
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The opinion (and that is all it is) of one or a thousand policeman does not overrule the law.
You are innocent until proven guilty. If you can cast reasonable doubt on the accuracy of the police statements then you cannot be found guilty. I
would start preparing a good defence with lots of photos from various angles showing that there is no way that they can have seen what colour your
lights were when you passed them. The fact that they state their lights were on green is not proof that yours were not. A good solicitor would pull
great holes in this case.
I came across the stupidity of law when I did jury service. A young thug had hit a policeman around the head with a pool ball in a sock after being
chased down a dark alley. This alley lead into a dead end garden where the thug, the ball and the sock were all found separately.
The thug said he was looking for somewhere to sleep for the night and had been there for a while (inside 8 ft fences!!).
As the policeman or his colleagues could not confirm actually seeing the thug swing the sock the judge ordered us to find him not guilty. This despite
us all seeing no other reasonable explanation for him being there and no-one else being found in the garden. The little tyke walked out with a smirk
on his face.
The law is there to protect the innocent but doesn't always work as the legal profession have found a thousand ways to exploit it for the good
of criminals. No wonder the world is going the ratsh!t.
Summer's here!!!!
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russbost
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 08:15 PM |
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Make a complaint to the chief constable about the action of the officers concerned stating you believe them to be lying & to have acted
unlawfully, indicating the arguable points in their testimony - they then HAVE to investigate this, it is a requirement, if it's already gone to
CPS then they cannot actually stop it but can recommend for it to be stopped, it's not worth their while to pursue the conviction, if you then
agree to drop complaint they will probably drop the conviction. I did exactly this in a similar situation & it works!
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 08:32 PM |
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Your not meant to enter the junction unless you can leave it - with the exception of if your progress is blocked by ON COMING traffic.
Had a bike crash years ago where a woman came through a red light into the side of me, she claimed she was already int he junction - if she had been
she would have got away with it - as it was I had a witness.
Sorry mate, but it don't luck good.
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larrythelathe
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 03:28 PM |
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update
Spoke to the officer today to be fair he listened to me and said he will talk to his sergeant.
Fingers crossed.
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larrythelathe
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 07:17 PM |
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bugger
Told it was stand.
They still insist i ran the lights.
I have taken legal advice this is there answer
You and a million like you. In a case such as this is it is simply your word against 2 police officers. Guess who will be believed.
It’s sadly just not worth the time and trouble and the extra fine and costs you will get. Plead guilty and just put it down to experience.
it makes me feel sick but i am going to have to taken the fixed penalty.
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 08:00 PM |
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do you get 3 points too?
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