Marks right its much better looking than blobs of Mig welds on yer pride n joy.Shug.
Hi all,
Apart from cosmetic appearance, speed of production, etc., which would be the preferred method to use?
I've got a Miller MigMatic 171 rated at 150 Amps and an EPS Exclusive 180M inverter rated at 180 Amps with all the TIG accessories.
My preference is the TIG as it has got a 100% duty cycle compared to the 35% of the MIG.
Before starting the build I plan to brush up my welding skills and would like to hear your opinions.
Go for the TIG, OK it will take you longer, about 50%. But as the chassis will probably only take you about 10 days, 5 extra days on a 18 month build is bugger all - and TIG is sooo nice to do
You won't get anywhere near the limit on either machine. You could use the mig to tack it together quicker and then weld it up with the tig. On the chassis most of the welds are only an inch long anyway.
Wots Mig, I aint used it since I discovered the delights of TIG Marks right its much better looking than blobs of Mig welds on yer pride n joy.
Shug.
given the choice, id'e go tig on the chassis...... less distortion too
TIG is lovely to do and such a superior form of welding it would be my choice if I had the gear, however I think 50% longer is a little optomistic
IMHO.
Tack with MIG finish with TIG sounds ideal.
John
Oh yeah, at the risk of stating the obvious, beware of the UV rays from TIG. It's quite fierce and will give you sunburn
[Edited on 4/7/04 by spunky]
Is that true John that you get less distortion with TIG, I thought it was a hotter and slower weld hence more distortion?. P.S. I am using TIG on
stainless (now that is a whole can of distortion worms)
[Edited on 4/7/04 by Digger Barnes]
Tigs hotter as well as slower, easier to control flow/penetration however, much better quality of finish
Shug.
it is hotter but much more localised, look at the "rainbow" it dont run 1/2 as far..... like stated above you can see and control the weld better, all IMHO of course......
why o why o why do I read threds in this forum??? Ended up buying a tig welder!! `oh well any one want a nearly new MIg welder SIP cost me nearly £500?
I agree you can control the weld better John and the finished result looks soooo much nicer. The only thing with TIG is the need for a plenyfull
supply of welding clamps as a third hand.
P.S. Alain you wont regret buying the TIG, it can be very theraputic at times.
We'll see but I must admit mig is just like glueing. Not very reassuring. I love the row of coins tig creates. By the way hwo exactly do you move the tig along is it a steady motion or do you stop then go?
For TIG welding I just use a steady motion, use the rod dips to give the finish (though for welding stainless steel tanks etc in my very limited
experience with TIG I have not used a filler rod at all, just seamed the corners together, seems to give the "stack of dimes" effect
automatically.
MIG welding done correctly is most certainly NOT like "glueing"!!! This is an incorrect setup problem, turn the wire feed down until you
progress nice and slowly and have plenty of time to watch the weld pool. Too many people let the welder run away with them and just "point and
squirt" (I know cos I used to!!). Don't, just slow it all right down to a TIG pace, set the MIG up for this then build up speed, not the
other way around. Doing it this way you will get perfect penetration with MIG and very neat welds (though not nearly as nice as TIG!!)
Given the choice I would use TIG for the chassis, but I don't have one at the minute so MIG has to do! Thinking about a TIG, you can now get a
decentish 140 amp inverter TIG from welderswarehouse for £350ish with all the accessories. However, it would be nice to be able to weld ally, and for
this you need an AC TIG which seem to start at £1500 for a single phase one, even s/h they are over a grand!!
For the minute I have a 230 amp single phase MIG which is nice and controllable at low settings for welding tanks up etc. (ironically, you tend to
find that big welders turned down are more controllable than small "diy" welders, don't know why but Mark Allanson might know? 3 phase
welders are also so much smoother but then I don't have 3 phase!! doh!!)
[Edited on 5/7/04 by NS Dev]
TIG is (flame suit on) Simply glorified gas welding. You have a very focused heat source, and an inert/clean surrounding in which you feed a weld
stock into. Gas welding, you have an unprotected big damn uncontrollable heat source that is real dirty, that you feed a weld stock into.
TIG wins hands on for quality of weld in precision welding. MIG can be done well (I can lay a roll of dimes down any time on clean metal) and with
speed. Both methods take time, patience, practice and above all CLEAN METAL.
David
(will weld for beer)
PS, don't get a "Gasless" MIG if you want to weld well, although they work, you won't be happy with the quality
[Edited on 5/7/04 by white130d]
MIG welding is cheaper, quicker, gives less distortion, and done correctly is just as strong and looks just as good. Looks different but just as
good.
Mind you it is also very easy to do it badly.
IMO
You said will weld for beer hmm.... should have said before I went out and bought a TIg. I own/run a pub and two bars will keep your email for future
services
Where in Derby are you, I will be in Matlock end of October (going to the Sodbury LR Sortout on the 23) will be in the Matlock are on the 24th -
28th
Peteff, you're in that are too aren't you?
David
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
MIG welding is cheaper, quicker, gives less distortion, and done correctly is just as strong and looks just as good. Looks different but just as good.
Mind you it is also very easy to do it badly.
IMO
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
Mind you it is also very easy to do it badly.
About 10 miles from Matlock in Clay Cross. It takes about 20 minutes to get there via the scenic route.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
Mind you it is also very easy to do it badly.
It's also easy to do it badly and make a really nice looking weld at the same time! You can end up with a 'pretty' weld, which is no use whatsoever.
It's been said may times on this forum - practice with scrap until you can make welds that look nice, but can survive being beaten senseless with a 2lb hammer without breaking, and have full weld penetration when cut in half with a hacksaw. Aslo, be self-critical...if you're not sure about a weld, grind it out and do it again.
rgds,
David
Hi,
Been following this with interest as I'm pretty close to starting the chassis, although still 'practising' MIG, do you ever stop
'practising' ??
The mention of the concave weld brought a question I have been pondering over, is it worth chamfering the edges of joints to form a shallow V to
'weld into', my thoughts are that this would help ensure penetration whilst keeping the surface pretty level, or at least leave some weld
there when it's ground (or should that be ginded) down.
Brad
quote:
Originally posted by BradW
Been following this with interest as I'm pretty close to starting the chassis, although still 'practising' MIG, do you ever stop 'practising' ??
quote:
The mention of the concave weld brought a question I have been pondering over, is it worth chamfering the edges of joints to form a shallow V to 'weld into', my thoughts are that this would help ensure penetration whilst keeping the surface pretty level, or at least leave some weld there when it's ground (or should that be ginded) down.
David J is right this is too thin. If you were welding 1/4" thick or more, then you want to bevel the ends.
David
The blowthrough is one of the reason why I'm still practising, I am considering using 2mm rather than 1.6, I appreciate there is a weight cost, but as I ma not planning on racing the extra strength (minimal) and easier welding do seem attractive, again any thoughts.
It would be better to practice until you can weld 1.6mm properly - there's no need to go to the extra thickness. 19mm sq and 25mm sq by 1.6mm
thick are very common sizes and easy to find (and probably the cheapest).
Do you know any good welders? I found the biggest help when I was learning was to have some direct guidance for an hour or so - watching an expert
really demonstrates the normal state of everything - the traverse speed, angles, the sound, everything. Also some basic guidance in setting up the
machine helps a huge amount (it's the hardest part of MIG welding, as far as I'm concerned).
Made a huge difference for me!
David
Here in SA my local supplier has both 1.6 and 2, the cost difference is very little.
I agree totally, the same guy who owns the steel place is building a replica Seven and also a great welder, he has helped me lots, 5 minutes with an
expert is better then 5 hours with a book.
About concave convex I was told tig is better as ythe stress passes through the weld as it ia concave or the other one. And with mig it has two focus point on either side of the weld hence you might hear people mention weld failure but it tends to be stress at those points on the endge of the plus the metal characteristics change at those points as they are a mixture of good weld and badly melted metal. hence another reason why when tiggin aluminium the weld never cracks but the original weld near the weld does, not due to stress but because the metal was not treated after being welded. Well what do I know I'm a publican.
Welding by sound is important, you can just tell a good weld by the way the crackle is smooth and consistant, no splat crackle buzz buzz sputter
sputter sputter.
David
Thanx, guys - I think I'll use the MIG for tack welds and do the main welding using the TIG.
I plan to go slowly in any case - each and every weld should be perfect as safety is my main concern.