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Setting up my mig
RedRuM - 14/10/02 at 04:20 PM

Ive started cutting my steel (badly) and am ready to try a bit of welding. Ive got a new mig welder from screwfix, but i dont know how to set it up. Ive read all the information in the book about it, and all the information about mig welding in a welding book but cant find anything on setting it up.

Ive got a roll of wire that came with it but i cant see where i attach it. Does it go inside the actual box part of the welder and get fed up through the pipe?

Also, im not too sure about the settings. On the welder, it has a dial that goes from 1 to 10, a swich that goes to 1 or 2, another switch which can be set to min or max and a on/off switch. I am guessing that the dial from the picture is the wire speed but i dont dont know about the gas flow and voltage. They are both switches but i thought both of these would have more than 2 settings?

And finally, the wire that came with it, is labeled with the diamiter of 0.8, but in the book, it says the maximum wire used in any mig welding is 0.125?

I'm very confused so any help would be appriciated.

Thansk

john_s - 14/10/02 at 04:53 PM

I'm not an expert welder, but i'll help out with what i've learnt while welding up my chassis...

quote:
Ive got a roll of wire that came with it but i cant see where i attach it. Does it go inside the actual box part of the welder and get fed up through the pipe?


Yes. Have a look inside. My welder has a sticker inside that tells you which way the wire is to be fed. You might need to change the roller around to suit the wire thickness.

quote:
I am guessing that the dial from the picture is the wire speed


Yes it will be the wire speed.

The 2 switches will adjust the output current, ie. 4 settings. The gas flow is adjusted by setting the regulator on the gas bottle.

The usual wire sizes for migs are 0.6mm and 0.8mm. Daddy sized migs will aslo take 1mm wire. I got some 0.6mm with my welder and found that ok to use. Others prefer 0.8mm (this was covered recently in a separate post).

If your mig is one of those which takes the small gas bottles, you might like to think about getting a bottle of Argoshield light from BOC. It will work out much cheaper that lots of the small disposable bottles. It costs approx. £30 for a fill of gas and about £35 per year rental.

I bought the Haynes "automotive welding" book which was useful for setting up my welder as it has photos of good and bad welds which i could compare to my results. It's good value at about £15, but however, i consider this to be a very expensive book as i now have the wants for a tig welder and a plasma cutter!

HTH.

John.

theconrodkid - 14/10/02 at 05:04 PM

you are better off with .6 wire,set it to max2 and just practice,wire speed about 3,gas at minimum that will weld without oxidising,keep trying till you get it right then you can be as good as me

RedRuM - 14/10/02 at 05:11 PM

Thanks for the info. I think my confusion on wire thicknesses has come from the welding book i have using inches, and the 0.8 on the wire i've got is in mm.

interestedparty - 14/10/02 at 05:38 PM

Assuming you don't know anyone who knows how to weld, consider giving a mobile welder a call and pay him to set your stuff up and show you how to use it. It will be the most value for money that you will spend in your build (probably).

John

RedRuM - 14/10/02 at 06:40 PM

I'll do that if it comes to it, but i would prefer to set it up myself, and its almost done now I think. The only problem left is that i can't work out how the wire attaches to the mig. I can see how it feeds in ok, but i dont know where it unrolls from. It came with a spring, a couple of screws and a couple of bits of plastic. If any1 has a ferm mig welder, can you tell me how it connects please.

Thanks

Thanks

Liam - 14/10/02 at 06:43 PM

Helloo...

Speaking of welding, I have inherited a large CO2 gas bottle from my mate that he used for his Locost - it's got a nice guage and everything. Would somewhere like BOC fill it up for me with argoshield or would they want me to rent a bottle from them instead?

Anybody got any idea how much someone would charge for setting up my crap old welder and showing me how best to use it like Interestedparty mentioned above? Is this a standard kind of service or do you have to get lucky and find yourself on the phone to a really nice helpful metal fabricators or something?

Cheers,

Liam

Liam - 14/10/02 at 06:48 PM

Redrum - I know Ferm are a bit cheapo but my Ferm metal cutter came with a half reasonable instruction pamphlet - shame it doesn't cut very straight . There really isn't anything in the manual? - gits.

If memory serves (and sometimes it does) I'm sure I found some online source of manuals/help for Ferm tools.

Liam

interestedparty - 14/10/02 at 07:01 PM

I bought my latest welder from te local welding supplies specialist in Swindon, who took my SIP in p/ex. They recommended I rang this bloke near Marlborough, I did and I took my new kit down there and he spent the afternoon teaching me how to work it. I admit I got lucky, finding someone as helpful as that. I paid him £20, more than he asked for, and it was one of the best £20's I've ever spent.
People who are really good at something, like welding for instance, are often quite flattered whan someone approaches them and asks them to teach them some stuff. I would be (guitar making/repairing used to be my thing, and if someone had asked me to teach them I would have, willingly).
Approaching people, getting them to help you out with something, is all part of the Locost thing, it's not just about making cars, is it?

UncleFista - 14/10/02 at 11:54 PM

Liam, we used to get our CO2 bottle filled/replaced by a local-ish bloke who advertised "2 CO2 bottles for sale" in the local ad-paper. I rang to buy the bottles and he told me he didn't have any at the moment but he did refills for a tenner
Recently though, I've used an "industrial gases" (they supply pubs) place because the original supplier was always pissed/out and its only 6.99 delivered

RoadkillUK - 15/10/02 at 12:51 PM

As for setting up the welder, I have a Word document on my website (it's in the links section) that I found useful when I started welding, it's taken from an email that someone in the know sent to TOL, I've just cleaned it up and converted it to a Word file.

Sorry I can't remember the name of the bloke in question.

john_s - 15/10/02 at 05:50 PM

quote:
Would somewhere like BOC fill it up for me with argoshield or would they want me to rent a bottle from them instead?


I don't think they would because...

1: i think BOC pressure test cylinders prior to refilling them (a H&S requirement?)

and

2: the BOC depot i use doesn't do filling, they just have a wagon deliver full cylinders and take away the empties.

John

stephen_gusterson - 15/10/02 at 06:47 PM

redrum.....

I wonder if you are having a bit of a laff here.

How can you have 'nearly set it up' when you havnt even fitted the wire?


DONT EVEN THINK of welding up your chassis until you get some heavy practice in.

that means getting the wire in the welder

and then welding lots of bits of scrap together.

You can get a weld that looks good, but may not have penetrated well.

Getting a good mig weld needs the welder set up in a 'zone' of operation that takes a while to find. You will get spattered welds, 'slugs' on the surface, and big holes, depending on if you have the setting high or low.

Assuming your serious, please dont even think of starting your car until you have spent a few hours practicing with a good book of instruction.

Its not that hard to do a decent weld once you get the settings right.

Bear in mind that the speed knob isnt just a wire feed - on some weders its also linked to the voltage /current supply too.


atb

steve

matt@teamturtle - 15/10/02 at 08:29 PM

quote:
Helloo...

Speaking of welding, I have inherited a large CO2 gas bottle from my mate that he used for his Locost - it's got a nice guage and everything. Would somewhere like BOC fill it up for me with argoshield or would they want me to rent a bottle from them instead?

Anybody got any idea how much someone would charge for setting up my crap old welder and showing me how best to use it like Interestedparty mentioned above? Is this a standard kind of service or do you have to get lucky and find yourself on the phone to a really nice helpful metal fabricators or something?

Cheers,

Liam


No one will put argoshield in a CO2 bottle.
CO2 is not as good or as easy to use as argoshield. For the extra few quid use argoshield and rent a bottle. If it leaks, BOC will replace. If it goes bang, don't expect tyhe results to be pretty. Gas bottles of any type are dangerous (200lbs/sqin + pressure inside)so don't skimp on the safety.
Today's health and safety lecture is now over.

RedRuM - 15/10/02 at 09:04 PM

quote:
redrum.....

I wonder if you are having a bit of a laff here.

How can you have 'nearly set it up' when you havnt even fitted the wire?


DONT EVEN THINK of welding up your chassis until you get some heavy practice in.

that means getting the wire in the welder

and then welding lots of bits of scrap together.

You can get a weld that looks good, but may not have penetrated well.

Getting a good mig weld needs the welder set up in a 'zone' of operation that takes a while to find. You will get spattered welds, 'slugs' on the surface, and big holes, depending on if you have the setting high or low.

Assuming your serious, please dont even think of starting your car until you have spent a few hours practicing with a good book of instruction.

Its not that hard to do a decent weld once you get the settings right.

Bear in mind that the speed knob isnt just a wire feed - on some weders its also linked to the voltage /current supply too.


atb

steve



When i said i had nearly set it up, i ment i had the gas bottle on and working, and the metal clip thing and i could see how to feed the wire in and that, which i suppose is't nearly. Anyway, turned out the reason i couldt work out how the roll mounted on was because there was a part that i didt know about that had falled off the shelf and rolled under a cabinet (yes i know, how stupid can i be, comeing here and bugging you lot when all i had done was lost a part, sorry!).

Anyway, its working now. Unfortunatly, i seem to be pretty terrible as welding but hopefully it will come with practise, and if not, lessons. I shall probably use most of the RHS i bought to practise on and then hopefully i'll be ready, and ill get some more.

I find it very difficult to start, because it doest seem to matter how much light i point at the steel, i still cant see through that mask.Anyway, i shall practise practise practise .... and hopefully improve.

Thanks for the help people

stephen_gusterson - 15/10/02 at 09:44 PM

a couple or more handy hints

1. you are not meant to see though the visor at all!!!! No matter how much light you use. If you have a hand held one, rather than goggles, which are hard, you line up the torch with the weld, and as you strike the arc, move the mask smartly to your face. As soon as the arc is made you will see fine.

2. Use short lengths of RHS. Weld ONE side of two bits moved together. This way you will be able to bed it apart and see how well you did. You probably wont get total penetration (weld coming thro other side) but you need to make sure you are getting some penetration, and not just leaving a fat bead on the outside.

3. Dont weld for too long in one place - you will burn thro. Turn off the torch a couple secs at a time to stop too much heat building up.

4. Mig welding isnt that hard. However if you dont have a bit of an idea of setting up it will seem impossible. Get a book or something - dont get depressed - you can do it. Jus tbe sure your welding is up to it before you build something thats crappy and dangerous.

5. Dont tighten the thingy that holds the spool on too much. you just want to stop it 'running on'.

6. dont tighten the feeder roller too much. If you do it will crush the wire and stall. If you have it too loose, your welds will spatter.

7. I used co2. I can say compared to the other guys experience that its best not to! You get more spatter and its more tricky. Use a co2 and argon mix.

8. Use too much gas than too little.

9. get a book and read up on it.

10. read up on it some more.

11. cover your arms and chest, as the UV given off will give you a nice tan! if you do a lot of welding you WILL get burnt.

12. get a pair or really thick wleders gloves from machine mart. not the gardeneres types. You will save your fingers on the grinder as well in the long run!

13. tack weld the frame like the book says. BE AWARE that when you fully weld it, to do it in different places rather than in a sequence down the frame. What im saying is if you dont distribute the order of welding, the chassis will 'banana' from end to end by up to an inch. if you weld some welds each side and not all of one side at a time, you may reduce this. Some weld with the frame clamped to a board, but im not sure if this works. If your frames does banana its not a disaster. Just move your susp points to suit.

14. look at the archives on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/locost - there is a lot of help there.


good luck.


steve

btw - im more of a crappy typist than a bad speller!

merkurman - 19/10/02 at 07:16 PM

wow I seem spoiled with a huge 220v miller wire welder with a spoolgun for it. I got .030" wire in it right now. its too almost too big for body work but for a locost it will be fine I think. I haven't really used the spool gun yet but I am going to pratice with it this winter....I want to be able to weld SS and AL. a tig would be great but I get to use this for free. might even save up some $$$ for a plasma cutter. those are real nice.

nick

Rick Iram - 27/10/02 at 04:58 PM

I had a problem seeing what I was welding, too. Part of the problem was that I couldn't line up the lower "close-up" segment of my bifocals with the view port in the helmet. A pair of single vision reading glasses solved that. I still found it difficult to see where I was welding. I suppose you can get used to getting lined up while the helmet is flipped up, then flipping the helmet down and pulling the trigger. I found that I inadvertently moved the gun at some point in this procedure and wound up welding somewhere other than where I wanted. I finally forked over the $100 US for an entry level auto darkening helmet. This stays light enough (like sunglasses) to see where you have the gun until you pull the trigger, then it instantly goes dark to protect you from the arc. Expensive, but it made a big difference for me. Hang in there. Keep practicing. Even the pros practice. Where I work, the welders must re-certify their skills annually, and they practice.

RedRuM - 27/10/02 at 10:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rick Iram
I had a problem seeing what I was welding, too. Part of the problem was that I couldn't line up the lower "close-up" segment of my bifocals with the view port in the helmet. A pair of single vision reading glasses solved that. I still found it difficult to see where I was welding. I suppose you can get used to getting lined up while the helmet is flipped up, then flipping the helmet down and pulling the trigger. I found that I inadvertently moved the gun at some point in this procedure and wound up welding somewhere other than where I wanted. I finally forked over the $100 US for an entry level auto darkening helmet. This stays light enough (like sunglasses) to see where you have the gun until you pull the trigger, then it instantly goes dark to protect you from the arc. Expensive, but it made a big difference for me. Hang in there. Keep practicing. Even the pros practice. Where I work, the welders must re-certify their skills annually, and they practice.


Exactly what i do, line it up, put the mask on (mine doest even flip) and then find i have moved the torch slightly. I was looking at those auto darnening helmets, but i have't seen them for less than about £130 and i read in a welding book that they can be bad for you because there is a split second delay between you striking the weld, and them darkening.

Viper - 27/10/02 at 10:53 PM

auto darnening helmets, but i have't seen them for less than about £130 and i read in a welding book that they can be bad for you because there is a split second delay between you striking the weld, and them darkening.

who wrote the welding book??? somebody that has never used one i would guess, i have used one for the last 10 years 5 days a week and i havent failed an eye test in that time, i wouldnt go back to the old type now for anything god bless the inventor of my head shiled

UncleFista - 28/10/02 at 12:09 AM

£89.00 inc VAT from
Toolsbypost
"EYE-TECH AUTOMATIC HELMETS CE APPROVED TO EN166/379
EYE-TECH 10/11 WE ARE HOLDING THE PRICE FOR A LIMITED TIME ... PRICE ONLY £89.00 INC VAT HURRY WHILE STOCKS LAST
The Eye-Tech helmets are based on an accomplished ergonomic design and using the skills of modern, advanced electronics. It is comfortable and safe, which increases the possibilities of achieving higher productivity and quality. On the Eye-Tech, the darkness of the eyeshade is continuously adjustable between shades 9 and 13.( £129 ) The Eye-Tech 1012 ( £119 )offers a choice of two darkness values, as does the Eye-Tech 10/11. SPECIAL £89
NO ON OR OFF SWITCHES
POWERED BY SOLAR CELLS
ADJUSTABLE OR FIXED EYESHADE DARKNESS
ADJUSTABLE FOR HEAD SIZE, FIVE SETTINGS"

RedRuM - 28/10/02 at 12:11 AM

Its this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557882649/qid=1035763725/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/202-9261961-6451820


which was written by richard finch. I just re-read the bit in question, what it actually says is "if you strike a new arc 50 or so times a day, your eyes will itch at the end of the day if you are using an electronic welding helmet."