before
and now.
thought i would show off the difference between when collected as a standard chassis to which most were worried it would twist with the huge torque,
well not any more.
before
and now.
I know its probably not important with the power the V10 will provide but how much more does this chassis weight compared to standard?
[Edited on 2/11/2007 by Keith Weiland]
not sure on weight but 2 blokes can still lift it fairly easy, but as you say, with a viper engine its not going to be a problem.
wow, that looks 'HEAVY DUTY' 
. I do understand that some people want to have the most powerfull engine possible. But wont having such an
heavy engine in the front a small car make the handleing a tad crap? It may be fast in a stright line like all american cars but show it a glimps of a
corner 
. I know that every body is open to there own opinions but in my eyes the point of seven style cars is to be small, light weight and handle
like, well a 7. some times I think that it is possible to just have too much power aspecialy when it is rear wheel drive car like a 7, when it can be
so hard to get the power down.
I can't see that the chassis would 'twist' with the torque. More likely the wheels would spin, or the axle mountings would break
Obviously from your reply you haven't seen/heard/felt the beast in the flesh. I could see how the chassis would twist . Just open the throttle!
I admit, I havent (seen/heard/felt the beast in the flesh). Im sure tho that sitting there in your own cloud of smoke every time you try and set of
dont feel that impresive 
. Has any body seen the final KitCar crises on discovery chanel? The one were the chasis cant take the power of the Hyabusa
engine .
looks awesome mate carry on the good work
Luego? Surely a Brunel +4 Awesome chassis!
But how will you get the engine in, with those blokes painting it all year round?
Look at the size of those brake shoes in the first picture.
[Edited on 2/11/07 by Confused but excited.]
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Obviously from your reply you haven't seen/heard/felt the beast in the flesh. I could see how the chassis would twist . Just open the throttle!
For each reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. Basic law of physics IIRC . Which mean that the engine will try to twist against any load put upon it which in turn means the engine mountings and chassis are also subject to the same load .
I would guess that the chassis will experience the torque under hard breaking and not hard acceleration?!?
john,
you know what mate. i think you putting a v10 engine in a kit car is fantastic. extra weight? who gives a cr*p. extra metal on the chassis? who
cares.
the chassis looks fantastic. the v10 is gonna be fantastic and i think you shoudl carry on buiding it like you have - exactly the way you want it
to.
im gonna fit massive brakes to mine - why - cause i want to. im not out to buid the lightest car, im out to build my car.
same applies to you.
its going to look and sound great mate.
when i looked at it at newark i just thought to myself "i'd make that fit in a cobra"
The thing is - BJ and Mark are "sleeper stars" i.e. Builders of 'ordinary' cars/vans with outrageous power units - Having had a
sneak at some of the body work it is going to look the same as any Viento, 4pot to 8 - slight difference of 525 horses...
I can't wait I shall visit the doctors for insertion of a cork before a passenger ride
Kind of sums up the whole point of kitcars as has been brought up time and time again but seems to get forgotten in this 'mythical' aim to
build the fastest/best handling/lightest/etc. - The car is the result of the things that make the builder smile - I'm guessing that John and Mark
will be happily sat on the start line for 25 secs bathed in the smoke of £400 of rubber cos they can...
I reckon the biggest strain will be in the rear uprights and everything connected to them - assuming you can get enough traction that is. Easy
controlled by installing wimpy tyres though 
I will keep watching with interest 
That's the first Locost chassis I have seen that could frighten a Volvo
Hmm some interesting reply's so far.
I can see it from all points of view but what you all need to bear in mind is that John wanted the engine to go into a cobra it was my idea to make it
a 7 opps lol.
The end result will (fingers crossed) be a car that will go round corners perhaps not as fast as a bike engined car but there is always the straight
and at that point the viper will come into its own.
Chassis twist and component strain has been on my mind the whole time this has been in the making and with rear uprights that are rated to higher than
the engine output im confident that it will all survive, having said that im sure we will break something its only a matter of time.
Only time will tell how good or bad it drives down the road but we have used all the right bits at considerable cost to John and have made as much
effort as poss to try to make sure that it will work.
Oh and Neil your right mate sitting there bathed in tyre smoke is fun but you really think the tyres will last 25sec!
Thing about this is that....it's a completely stupid idea.....it misses the point of 7 type cars by about 2 light years......it will probably be
'interesting' to drive to say the least and a well sorted Locost with a 1300 Crossflow engine will lap race circuits quicker........but for
some reason it's actually very very cool
So, do I want one?........errrr no 
for those who think i haven't done a little homework on this project here is one of my rear uprights, far from a sierra item,
and up front,
it has to be said , i worked at mosler for a bit . the corvette running gear can be very cheap (im not sure if thats corvette stuff) and its upto the job and has good geometry .
Fair play for giving it a go. A V10 is worth looking at, whatever its attached to
As its been intimated before, your chassis is looking more like the Forth Bridge than anything that Colin Chapman would have thought of.
Im not sure bigger is always better. Mind you, saying that its all down to personal preference and its more than I could build.
Still not sure I'd want to though.....
I have to ask........what's with all the rust? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of it being primer till you posted the picture
showing the track rod ends........it makes it look more of a hillbilly operation than precision engineering
[Edited on 3/11/07 by D Beddows]
quote:
Originally posted by bj928
for those who think i haven't done a little homework on this project...
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
For each reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. Basic law of physics IIRC . Which mean that the engine will try to twist against any load put upon it which in turn means the engine mountings and chassis are also subject to the same load .
The trouble is that this is ALL unknown territory for a Seven. All the theorist's in the world are going to make comments based on the assumption
that 'They' are right in the matter. But, at the end of the day, it is YOUR build. Done the way that YOU THINK is right. Sure it is possible
that things will break, you have however, by the looks of what I have seen so far, beefed all the most critical areas up as you believe to be fit.
As for paint or engineering build, why paint or protect until you know there will be no more alterations. The quality is always to be assessed from
the finished article.
Keep up the good work lads.
Clive.
PS. I think the first thing to break will be one of the front wing stays, or, someones pants.
pps. can you add my name to the growing list of passengers when finished.
Good effort!
Nice chunky rear uprights..
but still connected to the chassis via standard size wishbones.. they look by-far the weakest link in your rear assembly..
If the wishbone are upto it , I bet the rear bushses will wear out quite quicklywith all that force ..
quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
I reckon the biggest strain will be in the rear uprights and everything connected to them -
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
I have to ask........what's with all the rust?
) quote:
Originally posted by bj928
for those who think i haven't done a little homework on this project here is one of my rear uprights, far from a sierra item,
your dead right, lovely units, mated to cobra mustang shafts and a mustang/thunderbird irs dif casing, 8.8 lsd with electronic diff lock, and a 2.73:1 gear ratio
I think it'll be a sweet handling dream machine when it's done. Ok, it may not be the best handling 7 on the market, but once it's set
up, I'll bet it'll still out handle most sporting tin tops.
It still has a low CoG - I doubt it'll weigh more than 850 to 925kgs which for a 500+ bhp car is not a lot
Some build their cars with 1300cc x/vflows, Zetecs, redtops, blacktops, greentops, R V8's ; blimey, some people even put bike engines in theirs
(now that's weird). Live axle, de Dion or IRS.
How many cars can claim to be essences of the original, yet have such wide diversity.
I think the V10 is a great idea, don't let anyone detract you from that thought.
Oh yeah, once you've cleaned the seat, you can take me out too
ATB
Simon
I would recommend firstly to design the chassis in CAD and make a FEA analysis in order to maximize the rigidity/weight ratio. You have made a
brilliant job but i would be more happy to know that you have studied it "professionally" and make it as efficient as possible. That is, use
as little material as possible for a fairly big increase in rigidity.
Congratulations for your project!
quote:
Originally posted by Echidna
I would recommend firstly to design the chassis in CAD and make a FEA analysis......
Takes far to long. If it looks strong enough it probably is. The Moth redesign (to Tiger Moth), was done on the back of a fag
packet. Conversation went something along the lines of: I was once told this :-
"The Difference between a real engineer and a designer is that to a real engineer if it looks right then the reality is that it probably is right
and you will spend an awful lot of money to improve it marginally.
Designers usually make it more complicated than necessary and spend an awful lot of time and money TRYING to prove engineers wrong."
I just wish I could remember his name.
quote:
I just wish I could remember his name.
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
"The Difference between a real engineer and a designer is that to a real engineer if it looks right then the reality is that it probably is right and you will spend an awful lot of money to improve it marginally.
Designers usually make it more complicated than necessary and spend an awful lot of time and money TRYING to prove engineers wrong."
quote:
Also the Viper motor weighs ~500lb which is approximately 1 fat mate away from some of the normally used engines.
should still be a good whack lighter than the actual viper tho (which according to wikipedia is around the 1500kg mark)
good luck with it anyway, it may not be pure locost but i'm sure it'll be pure fun anyway
quote:
Originally posted by kb58
........ have to include a big, heavy transmission, differential, driveshaft, larger gas tank, bigger battery, and on and on. A powerful engine weighs much more than a couple extra cylinders.
[Edited on 11/5/07 by kb58]
Fair enough, though coming from an "all steel engine" is becoming more rare, especially for a sports car. However, everything else still
applies, heavier starter, battery, cables, gas tank, chassis tube size, etc. The difference in vehicle weight is more than just the difference in the
engine itself.
[Edited on 11/6/07 by kb58]
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
They binned the all steel small engine and auto box, and chucked in a Lexus GS430 alloy V8 and Supra manual box.
Difference between the two engines was a couple of kilos.
Is the wheely bar detachable????? Cant see it in 2nd pic
That bloody car nearly made my jump out of my skin at Newark i can see why the mods were necessary
Why do people insisit on having a discussion about agility, handling, nimbleness etc when pics are posted. This car will be a fantastic expression of
the great british 'cos i can' attitude. I applaud it for what it is. Well done guys, keep up the good work.
quote:
Why do people insisit on having a discussion about agility, handling, nimbleness etc when pics are posted.
well i would welcome it with open arms. Its not a car for me but im very disappointed that the builders are taking flak for building a car how they want it. What will everyone say when i start to build a monster truck?
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
What will everyone say when i start to build a monster truck?
quote:
Not quite true I'm afraid
From what I can see the Viper uses a T-56 gearbox weighing ~54Kg?
That doesn't sound too fat to me.
I know it's not all about the figures, especially with a seven, but when you're looking at upwards of 500bhp/tonne we're talking
serious straight line speed.
Obviously this is enough power to perhaps be the fastest seven type car; at what point do you think the aerodynamics will give up?
BTW I love what you're doing - pushing boundaries gets discussion & creativity flowing. I just don't have skills/experience/b*lls(the
real reason) to be on the bleeding edge! Good luck with the project.
Rich
quote:
Originally posted by RichB
I know it's not all about the figures, especially with a seven, but when you're looking at upwards of 500bhp/tonne we're talking serious straight line speed.
quote:
From what I can see the Viper uses a T-56 gearbox weighing ~54Kg?
You know what, i think that the shear fact that there are people all over the world posting here discussing the chassis and putting in there ideas
thoughts etc is fantastic.
Keep it coming john and myself are having a great time reading them all.
Some agree some disagree on a few areas but then thats the whole point of, well, everything. If we all agreed on everything it would be a boring thing
life lol.
We will all find out next year how it works or dont yes we have got that in the back of our minds but then someone has to push the boundrys.
Any way who left 2 idiots alone to come up with such a stupid idea pmsl 
It's just got to be done.
It just needed a couple of loonies...
I think it's fantastic and I can't wait to see it in the flesh.
Can't believe anyone would bother to criticise... it's not as if we're building to a standard template, or as if we're building F1
cars or something. I mean, Christ! half the people here use Pintos*! Overweight, under powered, hardly suitable, therefore for a se7en type car....
but no one criticises!
At the end of the day, Hicost has had over 400BHP for years in his Cossie se7en.... it hasn't broken (much!) yet!
Good on you for doin summat different.
Cheers,
James
*me included!
[Edited on 10/11/07 by James]
OK!!!
Why do people try to analise everything on here? To impress?
This bloke is doing what HE wants and will have a brilliant car when it is done.
Most people try to analise too much.
All the best for the build and let us know the results.
quote:
Originally posted by designer
OK!!!
Why do people try to analise everything on here? To impress?
This bloke is doing what HE wants and will have a brilliant car when it is done.
Most people try to analise too much.
All the best for the build and let us know the results.