I recently posted a thread here about differentials, now, I have a question about engines, my budget is quite limited, so my question is wich engine to choose?
Of course I want loads of power but I can simply not afford a hayabusa engine. Is there any older engines that still produce enough power maybe?

tried n trusted Blade.........

nice cheap pre 95 motor, bomb proof in a BEC..............

I'm a blade man myself, although a lot of folks recently are going for the Yamaha R1 engine which apparently isn't far off a 'busa and can be picked up slightly cheaper than a 'blade.
If I was starting a build tomorrow I might well go the R1 route.

If I was starting again I'd probably use an R1 too.

After installing the 'blade. On the next car I'd like to try something different. Maybe an R1, Blackbird or Busa...

Try oil/air cooled gsxr 1100. Cheap (<£300), more powerful and torquey than blade (later models) very tunable, I have seen a mallock with a new cam, carbs, flywheel, pistons do 190bhp, they are extremely reliable and the '92 model had 135bhp as standard and 90lb/f of torque.

Adam

quote:

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Originally posted by phelpsa
Try oil/air cooled gsxr 1100. Cheap (<£300), more powerful and torquey than blade (later models) very tunable, I have seen a mallock with a new cam, carbs, flywheel, pistons do 190bhp, they are extremely reliable and the '92 model had 135bhp as standard and 90lb/f of torque.

Adam

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No, it is about the same because it is air/oil cooled. It means you are not carrying around another couple of kilograms of water/antifreeze and a radiator. Even if you do spend £130 on a new bigger oil cooler (you need to) it is still cheaper than a blade.

Adam

quote:

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Originally posted by phelpsa
No, it is about the same because it is air/oil cooled. It means you are not carrying around another couple of kilograms of water/antifreeze and a radiator. Even if you do spend £130 on a new bigger oil cooler (you need to) it is still cheaper than a blade.

Adam

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In the middle. If you pull it out of a bike at the scrappie it will be cheaper.

Adam

i thought they were loads cheaper than that. Jon was selling a blade for 300 quid once.

my zx9r was £410, the cdi was £16. fuel pump about a fiver. offsky.

The day's of cheap blade engines has long gone! 1k is about right.
It's a bonus if you were able to hear it going.

It's depressing to hear stories of folks buying pre 95 engines for peanuts

The gsxr1100 seems very interesting, read a little bit about it, seems quite easy to tune.
But then I really don't know how the others are, like the r1 or the blade engine.

Give colibriman a shout he might be able to sort you out with something.

Drew

gsxr1100 is not very popular because it is oil/air cooled so you would need lots of vents and scoops to keep it cool.

Adam

I think I've decided to save some more money and buy somehting newer with a cat, cause if I build my car with an engine without emission control I will have to pay a fee when I register it, and that fee is about 500£ so I guess its more fun to put those money on a newer engine instead.

You can add a cat to any exhaust system, just get a second hand cat from a largish engined car.

Do you need lambda too ? Some people manage to get through the UK emissions test with just a cat and careful tuning.

Have you thought about the injection fire blade RRY 2000/1 929cc ,I have one fitted
to my MK INDY It passed the SVA with just a cat fitted, no lamda sensor ,and no fueling or ignition ajustments, you dont have to fit a choke ,and theres a bit more power than the early blades. you can pick them up now for about £1000

Unfortunately I need a lambda, cat and a carbon canister (not sure what that is though)

I think it has something to do with the tank ventilation, am I right?


[Edited on 7/6/04 by Zoophoria]

Yes you're right. The Carbon Canistor is for cleaning the ventilation from the gastank.

You can however use a carb engine and Megasquirt with Lambda and a cat, and pass the test. (I am thinking about it for my R1 engine, not sure however if it will end up more expensive than the "pollution fee" though)

If its cheaper or the same as buying an engine that will pass the test, then I think I´d rather go for the megasquirt, it is programmable.. right? Does it support "closed loop"?

I think it supports closed loop. I havent spent that much time investigating yet, since this is filed as "next years challenges"

The problem with getting an engine that will pass is that they are very expensive, we are talking 2002 - R1, GSX-R1000, 2000 - Blade and ZX-9R ? before these years they all had carbs.

Happy hunting, and if you find a supply of cheap 2002+ R1 engine please let me know

What about Suzukis RF900 or Yamaha's FZR1000 & XJ900?
These are engines that have reputations of being quite bullet proof whilst being really cheap. Also there are a lot of similar 750cc bikes out there.

Is there a minimum cc that should be considered or anything wrong with using these bikes??

The megasquirt does support closed loop running off the O2 sensor, but it is a narrow band sensor at this point. They do offer a wide band amplifier, but it is only for tuning right now as the ECU does have the capability to read it. The UltraMegaSquirt, which, last I checked was due out in the fall or winter is supposed to support a full wide band lambda and is written in C language, so it may be a bit easier for a poor sod like me to read it. Cheers!

What the opinion on a pan european 1100 flavour or 1300 cookies and cream?
Both cost wise availibility and shafty. ST seem to speak highly of them.


Answers on a ten pound note.
Answers on a ten pound note.

[Edited on 16-6-04 by mangogrooveworkshop]

I was talking to a friend at Le Mans who's brother is building a Pan Euro Locost, and I think his thinking is correct in that he sees the Pan Euro engine as a good alternative to a mildy tuned X Flow, rather than really comparing it to a screamer BEC like a blade etc.
ST evidently have a huge pile of Pan Euro engines so that may be why they are so keen to recommend them

I agree Chris, they are stock about 100bhp and dont rev too high, so i guess its a bit of middle ground for those that want the push pull 6 speed box and a bit of a different exhaust note but dont want to be deafened at 11500 rpm by a blade/ZX9 going full chatt.

Quite a torquey motor though i beleive, so thereofe its a good middle of the road choice.

But does anyone want a 'middle of the road' se7en? Shirley Not!

well what about the ZZR 1100 engine? how do you rate that then..? or the FZR 1000 exup, I know they are getting on a bit, but in their day - was a force to be reckoned with...or what about the triumph engines...

Mal

I went out in a ST pan euro last week.
It had a chipped ecu and was pushing out 130 bhp, the torque was good compared to my blade but I think it was 5 speed, still sequential though ( obviously ).
It revved to abut 7k if memory serves and with only the ecu chipped has got to be cheaper than tuning a car engine.

the triumph engine would be brilliant but make sure its the 955i and the new engine.with a race exhaust and the 3 cylinders these engines stand out by miles and no bike engine in my opinion sounds as good but the down sides are you need the little triumph hand held computer to adjust anything and to down load new tune codes in to them.i was thinking about using one but i went for the hayabusa in the end .or you could use the early triumph carb engines ,the trophy 1200 is a very strong engine with plenty of power and grunt,the down side to these is if youv got a tired battery you could soon ruin the starter idel gear and on some of the engines its a engine strip