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Suzuki GSXR 1100 WP Engine
scootz - 31/3/11 at 11:08 AM

Does anyone know much about these?

I recall from my biking days that they were pretty wild engines and responded well to tuning, but are they still capable of mixing it with the todays bike engines?

Cheers!

minitici - 31/3/11 at 11:15 AM

Was doing a bit of work on one last week.
(Fitting a Flatshifter Expert system).
Video
This one has FCR39 flatslide carbs fitted.
Engine & tyres were a bit too cold for the first corner!

[Edited on 31/3/11 by minitici]

scootz - 31/3/11 at 11:21 AM

Any idea what sort of power it was making Doug?

Yazza54 - 31/3/11 at 11:33 AM

http://hem.bredband.net/b375786/history.htm

scootz - 31/3/11 at 11:36 AM

Cheers Yazza!

Didn't realise the WP-forward engines of the early-90's were making 155hp!

rf900rush - 31/3/11 at 11:48 AM

If before 1995ish then no CAT

matt_gsxr has I 1100wp and I think a turbo now.

I have the cut down version of that engine. the RF900RR.
and that was rated at 120bhp.

Good strong engines. Bit heavier than the newer on's

Martin

kevmcdo - 31/3/11 at 03:58 PM

Great power from the engine, it was the weight and chassis that let it down and as a result the Fireblade killed it off...

I toured on one and it was the Biz, always got to where we were staying nice and early

gmoto - 31/3/11 at 05:27 PM

As above - for a bikewise they're dated due to the weight - the blackbird then Hayabusa (and big ninjas) tool over that crown.

You do often still seem them on drag bikes, oft with turbos, which suggests there's definitely still something for them.
There's a Jedi mk4 with a 370hp turbo GSXR1100 engine on pistonheads... forget which edition of engine, however.

scootz - 31/3/11 at 05:34 PM

Cheers... I know the bike was a bit lardy, but are you saying that the engine was disproportionately heavy too?

matt_gsxr - 1/4/11 at 09:32 AM

Scootz,

Finally something I know a bit about.

These are heavier than more modern stuff (weighed mine with starter and alternator at 78kg, the lightest new stuff is more like 55-60kg), but it is still liftable.

Very popular in sidecar racing, until a capacity threshold of 1litre killed them.

Cloudy (James) had one in his R4 and was making something over 150bhp, and it seemed to keep up with the traffic. The engine he had used a fair amount of oil, so he swapped it for an R1 (you can probably find his comments on the comparison between the two engines on here somewhere). The main problem with these engines is that they are mostly old, and so mostly fairly worn. Later cams are stronger, earlier ones don't make the 156bhp by a long way. If installing in a new car you need to get paperwork proving its pre 95 (for emissions), suzuki cannot back calculate from engine number, so you need chassis number or numberplate.

Mine is now EFI, as old carbs are leaky carbs and I fancied a play with megasquirt. Not a difficult installation. Also I am putting a turbo on, just because I like messing around. I got a little oil surge at Llandow (flickering of 30psi pressure light) and so have fitted an accusump.

The engines are strong and reliable with no real weak points. Alternator output is a bit low as in the original install there was very little power draw (no fuel pump, etc). Based on an oil cooled design, so can handle heat for when things go wrong. Some of the second hand ones have loads of fancy bits. I picked up a couple one had extensive headwork, oversized valves, titanium bits, forged pistons, fancy rods and crank and a kent cam. Valve guides were shot and a couple of valves were hiding in a piston though!


Hree is some info I accumulated:
http://www.matt_phoenix.talktalk.net/GSXR1100WP%20engine%20of%20champions.html




Matt

scootz - 1/4/11 at 12:45 PM

Cheers Matt... some interesting reading there!

cloudy - 1/4/11 at 12:50 PM

Great engines, mine was overbored with dyna2000 ignition with a bit of advance
Getting a bit long in the tooth now, most engines are pretty worn, but considering they're 18 years old now - they are pretty incredible....

matt_gsxr - 1/4/11 at 06:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
Great engines, mine was overbored



More are overbored than not these days, as once you have worn barrels then its too tempting not to pop some new slugs in. Stock overbore is 1146cc, above that you need new liners for 1192cc and that is all a bit pricey. Unlike the previous oil cooled motors you can't go any bigger than that without a longer crank.

Higher compression improves the power output, 1146cc with 13:1 is a standard JE Pistons upgrade.

Stock engines can take 6psi which can yield a healthy boost in output. If you run ex-sidecar 14:1 CR and put a turbo on then you can get detonation and crack the barrels at 7psi (guess how I know this!!!). Presently putting a 1192 block together with a thick-ish base spacer.

I am not sure I would put one in a car again. They are good and strong (in every way) and I am not going to change to a different engine, but as James says, they are all old engines so you end up doing a fair amount to get them working nicely. I really struggled to get mine through emissions on the stock carbs (big old 40mm Keihins, which were not great when airflow was low).

You can pick engines up for around £400, they were a popular conversions into gsxr750 (for a 7/11) and a few people also use most of the engine in an rf900 conversion to make an rf1117. Loads of information on the oldskoolsuzuki.info site where they don't seem to despise people who put them in cars.


Matt

scootz - 1/4/11 at 06:37 PM

Just that I saw an Ex-F1 Sidecar 1157 WP for sale at reasonable money.

Has a billet sump, dyna-coils and 39mm flat-slides... the owner reckons it's not far off the 190hp mark, but can't back it up with dyno prints. He seems an honest chap though!

matt_gsxr - 1/4/11 at 08:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Just that I saw an Ex-F1 Sidecar 1157 WP for sale at reasonable money.

Has a billet sump, dyna-coils and 39mm flat-slides... the owner reckons it's not far off the 190hp mark, but can't back it up with dyno prints. He seems an honest chap though!


I bought two engines from a sidecar guy in scotland. "both run, one is a bit down on power". so he shipped them down on a pallet.

One had 4 valves embeded in cylinders and wouldn't turn over. the other had a blown cylinder head gasket and no compression on 2 cylinders. So that was a lesson learned, don't trust scottish sidecar racers.

1157 isn't a normal capacity to bore them to (maybe 1147cc but not 1157, from what I know) look it up on gsxrzone.com where they sell all the pistons. If the bores are messed up then you can't rebore bigger than 1146, so the barrels are junk, and getting replacement barrels isn't easy, and re-sleeve is too expensive to be worth bothering with.

If you do decide to buy then definitely do a compression test. I would have thought that to get 190 you would need very high compression and probably some aggressive cams (kent probably, same as Webster used). That means idle below 1500 might be tough to achieve. Normally they remove starters and alternators, and so you need the covers and such.

Billet sumps are common (I have 3) you need to supplement the oil capacity as they are very low volume (an accusump is easiest).

Sounds interesting, but tread carefully,

Matt

scootz - 1/4/11 at 08:26 PM

Thanks Matt!

Sorry... t'was a typo... it is 1147!

matt_gsxr - 1/4/11 at 09:30 PM

that sounds more like it.

I look forward to someone else getting into the WP.

Matt

scootz - 4/4/11 at 09:14 AM

It's on eBay now...

FORMULA 1 SIDECAR ENGINE on eBay (end time 10-Apr-11 14:18:20 BST)

matt_gsxr - 4/4/11 at 10:04 AM

Scootz,

I warned you about the missing alternator.

If anyone here is thinking about buying it, you need to know the chassis or numberplate if you want to register it as pre 94 (i.e. easy emissions). You won't get this past IVA unless it is pre 94, and Suzuki can't get age of engine from just the engine number.

The carbs are worth more than the engine. Lots of promising bits on there but I'd be surprised if this sells at that price.

Matt

scootz - 4/4/11 at 10:16 AM

It's been on auction once before Matt and failed to register a bid. I spoke with the guy - he seems genuine enough and tells me it was only removed from his sidecar due to new-regs.

I'm swithering about it... it's a lot of power for the money, but the dry-sump set-up of the Aprilia RSV engine keeps calling me back in that direction! Do I really want more than 140hp going through a single rear-wheel on a home-engineered 'reverse-trike'!?