Hmmm.... I'm building a locost but haven't had much luck finding a suitable car engine... However I do have an old GSXR engine sitting in my garage (the first generation 1052cc, oil cooled type)... Question is though do I really want to use an engine designed to power a vehicle weighing 197 kilos to power a vehicle weighing in around the 500 kilo mark? Have any of you guys used this type of engine before? Any comments would be appreciated.

Most bike engines are designed to pull along a vehicle weighing 200kg or less.
They have low ratio final drives and 17" wheels. Cars have higher ratio drives and 15" wheels (say) and so the effect of car + driver versus bike+rider is only about 50% more.

An 1100cc bike engine should be well up to the job. I don't know if there would be sufficient air flow for cooling though. You could fit a fan but where would you put the thermal switch?

were all fitting/fitted bike engines in our cars

theyre good fun

most have used the 900cc firebalde engine.

your engine might be slightly down on power not much compared to newer versions

its all down to whether many have used the engine before as to what kind of help you get..

some engines although the start off price sounds good it could end up costing a load with special fabrications oil dry sump etc

chris

This engine needs dry sumping, Many have had blown engines due to oil starvation.
Heres a pic of the kit we are fitting to our k1 engine. costs about £1400 uk.
Rescued attachment gsxr1000drysumpkit.jpg

decay, you're talking about the new gixer 1000 engine, not the old 110 thats being discussed here. I think the old 1100 is known for being as tough as old boots and was used a lot in sidecars (I believe without dry sumping), but not 100% sure about running it at 90 degrees in a front engine'd car.

I think the problem you may have with the oil cooled engine is keeping it cool, because the BEC will be geared much lower, you will be revving the engine much more than in the bike and generally putting more load on it, so the oil is likely to get hotter than it would when in the bike.

think you can do the job,

just buy 3 fans..

and stick them in the nose....in series

when oil is getting 99degrees start all of them...

when on speed switch 2 off... etc..

Tks

Thanks for your comments so far. The old
oil cooled GSXR1100 engine does have a
reputation as being bullet proof and is basically the same engine as fitted to the current model 1200 bandits (do you have them in the UK?). I was thinking a bit of clever ducting could direct enough cooling air over the head and barrels (ducting air in from the intake side and out through the exhaust side). And front mounting the oil cooler where a radiator would normally be mounted in the nose cone with fan assist. Why would dry sumping be necessary though, to counter oil surge caused by lateral g forces???

Yep, in the bike the engine doesnt see significant lateral G because the bike/engine leans into the corner, whereas in the car the engine is always upright so the oil gets sloshed from side to side when cornering. Its not needed on all engines, probably about 50% of useable bike engines (most notably R1, blade and ZX9) have proven not to need them unless possibly when running slicks. Other engines such as busa, Gixer 1000, ZX12 are in a grey area for track use, and then there's engines like the Blackbird that almost certainly need dry sumping

[Edited on 22/11/05 by ChrisGamlin]

used this engine, just not on the road yet! all done 'cept tidying up. mounted an oil cooler in the nose, with a thermostat in the oil line. standard sump. mate races a single seater, same engine but supercharged, no probs. the oil surge when cornering won't be anything like it is under braking on the bike ( being turned round 90 degrees) any q's i'm happy to answer, but i don't go on here very often! if you go with the 11, i'll give you my phone no. as i say, if you saw charlie racing, you'd have no worries about the engine - especially power!

quote:

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Originally posted by robby
the oil surge when cornering won't be anything like it is under braking on the bike

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I would suggest the braking forces would be pretty extreme, but the real issue is the engine is under no load and not revving like it is in a bec...

Most superbikes seem to struggle to do 100-0mph in under 5s, which I think is under 1g deceleration?

If that's correct I guess maybe because of the way the forces are exerted on the body when braking on a bike, it probably feels much more force on the body than cornering in a car?

aye, never thought about the engine not being under load. mate had trouble in his bec with fuel starvation under cornering, but no probs wi oil. he went to injection.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Most superbikes seem to struggle to do 100-0mph in under 5s, which I think is under 1g deceleration?

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Yep I guess on slicks and with the angle of the bike diving its nose, there will be more inclination to slop away on a race bike, and they aren't dry sumped so that does point more to our theory of not under load being a big factor as to why they don't suffer in the bike

i think that unless you're racing, there are few corners long enough, that we'll be going round hard enough, to cause any problems... although that looks like the sort of phrase that will come back to haunt me!

[Edited on 29/11/05 by robby]

Yep it probably will!

It doesnt need a particularly long corner to get oil surge, as soon as the oil pickup is exposed to free air it will suck up a slug of air even if within a second or so its immersed back in oil. That little slug of air will still give a momentary starvation of oil to the engine even if its only for a very short time, so could still cause damage even if it doesnt do it immediately.

Having said that, if you're only using it on the road then you wont be cornering so hard even if there are long corners, so are less likely to see oil surge problems.

A 32 row oil cooler should resolve cooling issues in the gixer, biggest headache Ive had is the clutch turning the engine through 90 puts the hydraulic clutch where you want the shaft to run! i ve resolved this using an lotus excel slave cylinder, I think phelpsa had z cars resolve this by shaving the cover ?