Hi guys i was wondering if someone could recommended which Hayabusa engine to go for or whether there isn't much difference between them.
Many thanks in advance.
Have you considered a ZX12R? They are somewhat cheaper.......
Have had my heart set on an R1 for ages now even bought my haynes manuel and rear exhaust can but havent found a suitable engine and ones i do find
people are asking to much so thought i might aswell see what i can get for more money.
I was reading a superbike mag the other night whioch showed in america they have had 260mph out of a turbo busa now im not expecting to get or even do
that but i was thinking there are alot of tuning parts availlible for the busa which there arent for the ZXR.
I might still go for a R1 but its been that long since i first started to look that im just getting a little impateint cause i had this car now for 3
years and have only driven it twice so dont want to miss this summer.
Anyway well see what happens !
mate theres loads of r1 engines out there
wait a week and one will come up
I drove an 800 mile round trip for mine
quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
but i was thinking there are alot of tuning parts availlible for the busa which there arent for the ZXR.
Keep an eye on the stock lists of
http://www.rsmotorcycles.co.uk/
They usually have a number of R1's Birds, Blades, & Busas although they dont seem to have any R1's or Busa at the moment.
They mainly deal in bikes that have been dropped on the forcourt & written off but you can see the level of written off-ness in the fairly
detailed photos they put up for each bike.
Keep in mind the Hayabusa WILL require a dry-sump, around $2000, so it's far from a bargin. Once that's factored in the R1 looks much better.
doesnt ox use a busa with no dry sump?
hi,i use a dry sump kit but i was talking to a bloke at holeshot turbos friday and he said they use there own wet sump £300 becouse the pumps are
unreliable 
dax dont use a dry sump .
there are busa engines out there for around £2500 but for £1500 you can get the zx12 which makes it a brilliant buy
[Edited on 7/3/06 by OX]
nearly bought a busa 2001 £2500 a minute ago!
Is it stupid to buy one should i really be looking into the ZX's ?
What are the pros and cons of busa vs ZX
if you decide to go down the 1000cc route go for the fazer 1000, in a bec it noticably quicker than the r1 do to yamaha reworking the head for more low down torque, and its still 150bhp.
mate low down ???
my car will never be below 8k
thats when the r1 is in its glory
quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
Is it stupid to buy one should i really be looking into the ZX's ?
What are the pros and cons of busa vs ZX
ZX12R v Busa.
To be honest there's not a lot in em. ZX12R has slightly more BHP, whereas Busa has slightly more torque. There's very little to split em.
Have a look at the clip on this page
Link
George, all I can say is that the R1 you tested must have been low on power, the Fazer tuned, or the R1 installed in a significantly heavier car (or
you've got a Fazer engine to sell ) because there's no way it would be noticably faster than a good R1 lump.
2001 R1
150 BHP
108.00 Nm @ 8500 RPM
2001 Fazer
143bhp
106.0Nm @ 7500 RPM
The 2006 Fazer is 150bhp but the same 106Nm peak torque rises to 8,000rpm making it all but identical to the 2002/3 R1 and I suspect if anything it
would be more expensive than a 2002/3 R1 given its age.
quote:
Originally posted by OX
quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
Is it stupid to buy one should i really be looking into the ZX's ?
What are the pros and cons of busa vs ZX
all i know is the busa's are known to be bullet proof
Yep although I still think the busa shades it as the ultimate BEC engine overall, I certainly think out of the two the ZX12 is the engine to go for
considering the price they currently sell at. Even if you felt the need to dry sump it (debatable), it would still come out ~£1000-1500 cheaper than
an equivalent busa and give equal performance.
The only downside to both engines is that they are significantly heaver (by 20-30kgs) than the litre engines, so the gains over an R1 etc aren't
quite as much as you first think.
[Edited on 7/3/06 by ChrisGamlin]
Ok might be getting it tommorrow maybe !
What do people use for the fuel pump do you use the original ?
Can i still use my ETB digi dash 2 or do i have to use the original clocks ?
What other mods need doing to the engine other than dry sumping.
Do i need a oil cooler radiator ?
Any recommendations on best dry sump kit ?
What the best exhaust set up equal length 4-1 or 4-2-1 or not equal length ?
Any help much appreciated.
Digidash will be ideal, on the busa you can use the original clocks for diagnostic purposes (so worth having in the garage and leaving the connectors
on the loom) but will work with any aftermarket dash setup.
Fuel pump - if its anything like the R1 then the original pump will be a submersible one so you might be better off getting an inline Bosch pump or
something. Mine's a Bosch 0 580 464 038 and its exactly as my mate's Megabusa has fitted as supplied by Westfield.
An oil cooler would be a good idea if you're going on track, as for dry sump kits, a good place to start might be the
WSCC forum as its been discussed a few times on there by busa owners.
[Edited on 7/3/06 by ChrisGamlin]
So a in line fuel pump with an extra bit in the bottom of the tank to stop fuel starvation would be fine. Do i need two fuel lines running through the tunnel if so what inlet/outlet do i need for the tank breather / inlet / outlet ?
Yep you'll probably need a swirl pot in the bottom of the tank. Some people run a low pressure pump feeding a small secondary swirl pot / tank
which then feeds the FI pump, but as long as your tank is reasonably well designed and baffled then thats overkill for our use.
You will also need a return fuel feed back into the tank and also possibly a regulator (not sure if the busa has one built into the fuel rail). From
memory I have a 10mm hose from the tank into the pump, then 8mm pipe on the high pressure side including the return feed to the tank, but thats on an
R1 so you might need different hose to fit the busa.
God this is starting to get a bit daunting !
I have read somehwere that the clucth is hydraluic is this true ? If so what do i need to do to convert it or is it easier to get a master cyclinder
?
If you're worried about finding a good R1 motor talk to yorkshire engines on this forum.
His names Malc and he's very experienced in motorsport circles (BSB techie and still races sidecars). But the most important thing... He sells
great engines and very good prices...
You're talking about Busas and ZX12's for around the £1500 mark + accumsump and modded sump and Busas for A LOT more... My R1 kit set me
back £850 with fuel pump, all wiring looms, relays, radiator, etc. from Malc and for the amount of money you are saving you could get yourself a wet
50 shot of NOS easily and blow away most things on two or four wheels...
This is his number if you're interested. He's a great bloke and more than willing to answer any questions and he's usually got a few
R1's in... 07960011585
Chris.
Yeah i know !
Im not gonna go that route anymore
Thanks anyway
[Edited on 7/3/06 by the moa 2]
It is hydraulic clutch, and from what I remember has a bolt-in actuator/slave cylinder that pushes inwards to release the clutch rather than the more
common lever arm rotating as per R1s, blades etc, so probably not straight forward to convert to cable.
Ive never heard of any specific problems getting it to work though, so I assume its just a matter of rigging up a suitably sized master cylinder for
it.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
doesnt ox use a busa with no dry sump?
lol
i use a dry sump kit to be safe but now i hear that the oil pumps seize.oooo what to do
my busa is an 03 and it only has one fuel line becouse the pump and regulator is in the tank.
What engine are we talking about? If it's the ZX12R, then no, the clutch isn't hydraulic and like OX says, if you can get the original fuel
pump from the bike, it will save running a return fuel line.
Phil
I thought we were talking busa?
quote:
Originally posted by the moa 2
nearly bought a busa 2001 £2500 a minute ago!
Is it stupid to buy one should i really be looking into the ZX's ?
What are the pros and cons of busa vs ZX
Hey bud,
Just curious as to why you ruled out an R1?
Originally you said it was because there was a lack of them about?
Or is it the power thing?
Also, what car do you have now then?
It says R1 locost on your 'building' bit but you say you've driven it a couple of times? What motor's in it at the mo?
It original had a pinto which we got sva done with then a track day at bedford which subsequently nackered the engine and thats were the story ends i
have been in the middle of sorting the bike engine thing out for ages now .
I havent found a R1 5JJ for the right money, people asking to much cheapest i found was £1427.63 from Ken Urwins 01405 740248 .
The engine i looked at yesterday the Hayabusa was from M1 salvage easy to find on the net they advertised it as a 2001 at £2750 in the end i found out
it was a x model which is a 1999 year and they were prepared to go down to £2400 but i was put off by there lying !
Malcolm at yorkshire engines is a great chap to talk to and he said he had an engine but then i never heard from him , im not one to put someone down,
maybe his a bit busy at the mo i dont know.
Now i started looking into a busa ive got the buz to get one of the bigger engine kits now so we will see what unfolds today.
Too bad about the Pinto giving up!
No matter what motor you go for, be it an R1, Busa or 12R, it'll be a mighty improvement on a Pinto.
I think at this point in time I personally couldn't justify spending an extra 1k to 3k on 20 to 40 bhp (depending on who you talk to...) for a
Busa or 12R.
Saying that I would love to follow in the footsteps of a friend who stuck a 120 shot of progressive NOS to a ZX12R! Imagine that in a BEC... 
Good luck with whichever way you go,
Chris.
cheers mate your r1 in yet ?
Surely the extra torque of the Busa is critical with the weight of a car?
Phil I was watching your videos, but wasn't entirely sure as to the 1/4 mile time you achieved. I saw 13s and even 14s, but I expected the bike
powered cars to perform better than that. I also saw a white one which looked quick, was that running a tunned R1 engine?
Do the bike engines compare well to the VX/XE engines?
I am most likely to buy a complete car as I am a real novice at the mechanicing lark, and I don't want to wait. I also want to make sure I go the
right route. MK Indy looks a great bit of kit for the money too.
George
Hellfires site doesn“t show very well up over here sow this is the linky..
Link
regards,
the newer litre bikes arent that far off the zx12r/busa torque wise if you factor in the revs/gearing. if the redline is 14k instead of 10k then if
you make the gearing so at redline they are at the same speed then the torque multipication of the transmission will be 1.4 so the overall torque will
be at the equivalent to the 150NM/110lbft level of the busa/12r. will a bit more frantic though.
you also get a usefull 20kg weight saving. (my 06 r1 is under 60kg) just make sure you get a decent exhaust for the new r1 and you should lose the
huge 7k rpm torque dip (its caused by the exup) and have a flat torque curve from 5.5k-13.5k (only 5lbft difference across the whole range).
Every thing will depend on what is what you want...
i'm sure a viento with a audi v8 or beamer straight 6 block will beat everything!!
or just a m3 engine in it..
Its just about tax,import tax,handling,fuel consumption..
in the end the horses will always win!
wy?? because +30Bhp will make allot of difference even when only 30kgs are added...
i take for the dry weight of the R1 500Kgs?
Will make it 300Bhp/ton..
the busa will have got 180Bhp and weight 530Kgs ==> 339,6Bhp/ton
If a cosworth will develop with his turbo 240Horses but everything on it will weith 90kilo's havier..(sow engine and gearbox weight in at
180kgs..)
You will get 620Kgs and 240 horses will result in a 387bhp/ton
The only thing what will always win is a the best of both world..and thats a turbo ed bike engine!!
it wont have the weight panelty (in every aspect) and will develop 230Bhp?? sow it will leave the the cossie a fat monster..
In a normal non turbo Seven you will need the CEC 30/50Bhp more BHP to beat the BEC depending on the weight of the CEC engine (alu or alla pinto
etc..)
Conclusion: are you a normal guy but you want a good performing Seven ==> R1
If you have less money to spent ==> pinto way..
If you want hill climb/ low 1/4 mile time go CEC but with BIG Horses 240+ or go Turbo Busa!
offcourse taking into account that you don't have any preference...
Regards,
Thanks chaps some great replies. Ideally I would want something nice and light as handling is a priority. I do want the car to be fast though and to
be honest if its not capable of dipping below 13s in a 1/4 mile dash then its not the setup for me.
I won't be building the car myself so I am just weighing up which is the best option to buy ready built.
I originally wanted a busa engined car after seeing a review of the megabusa on its release. However if Indy with a Redtop engine can be bought for
similar money and will out perform BEC then that would definatley something I would look at.
At the end of the day if I can pick up a busa car for good money I could look into s/c or turbo charging about it. The only thing that puts me off a
turbo is the way it alters the power delivery.
So whats in that white one then? I remeber seeing a silver one running 10s and 11s at pod a couple of years back.
Cheers
George
quote:
here we go again...
new r1 175bhp 60kg
busa 180bhp 80kg
a r1 locost should be around 430kg so 406bhp/tonne
busa locost 450kg so 400bhp/tonne
both will easily out corner the cossie motor due to less weight
an earlier r1 can be had for less than £1000 an 250bhp is possible reliably with a turbo and a turbo can be done properly for £1000-1500 so
575bhp/tonne.
a straight 6 or v8 locost will be very heavy with the increased engine/gearbox/diff weight and the extra chassis bracing needed. so over 300bhp but
atleast 650kg so good in a straight line (traction limited maybe) but a lightweight cec or bec will run rings round it on a track.
if i was you i would buy a busa...
incl. the turbo kit, but mount it after one year or sow because it will be another investment..
When you turbo the busa to lets say 220/260Bhp..you will be almost outperforming everything..because of your lower weight and heigh bhp figures
put to that that their are turbo busa's
with 300bhp out there.. and you will be almost 100kgs lighter...
the trick is the lower your weight, the more you can multiply your BHP with to reach the per ton figure..
if the turbo caracteristics don't like you, just try to search for a compressor idea!
anyway it will always depend on settings and config and take in mind that with the bec the turbo is always well on speed because of the nature of
driveing at higher rpm....(sow its less sensitive to the abuse reaction of the turbo comeing in..)
Tks
p.s. the CEC have because of their higher cubes...more potential... but are made for 300.000kms the engines..
on the other side the BEC use their potential.. more and are made for 100.000kms??
TKS great ideas there mate, and stuff I had thought about. Its nice to know I am thinking along the right lines though! Cheers
Chris I didn't really think about a vtec as I thought they would cost a fortune. I don't really have a buget as such I'm just looking
whats avaliable and what you can get for your money.
I take it this ones got a ctr lump in it mate? What sort of money are you talking?
G
Just checked your site and seen its an S2000, very very nice mate. That must be about the ultimate in terms of N/A performance mate.
7k I take it thats the engine and running gear with kit and build time on top?
u2u = ???
What sort of power does this run, anything over the standard 240?
G
Great stuff Chris I have just sussed it. I am going out now but I will reply either later or tomorrow.
I love this forum, so much help its great.
George