Hi guys!

We've just got hold of Ron Champion's book and have been doing some thinking.

Currently we're considering a Beamer 325i mid 1980 as a donor for the extra power. Looking at the posts this seems to mean more graft and a more expensive project.

Is there anyone who has used a BMW as a donor and if so what bits can be used directly and which bits caused problems?

Could we use the back end of a cortina/escort to get around the IRS problem?

Can you just extent the book frame design by 6inches to fit in the 6 cylinders?

In full LOcost sprit we want to keep this as cheap as possible. What would be the major cost differences between a BMW and Sierra - which from the looks of things can be done for ~ £1200. And are there any other donor cars with RWD and 150bhp which will be easier/cheaper?

Cheers!

a1istair.

a v engine would be easier to fit than the straight 6, so some might recommend using a sierra or cortina donor (hubs, rack, steering, plus the small stuff like battery and wires, some switches etc) and sourcing a seperate big engine, either rover or ford v maybe.

i would reccomend bike engines personally, that what i intend to do on mk2 (mk1 nearly finished!). similar power but vastly less weight/size. plus well documented use, and online help.

A1istair.
Cannot see any major problem with making a chassis to take the BMW lump, which might explain why Metal Hippy and I want to do it, he already has his donor in bits ready to start the build, I should catch up with him shortly, collecting the "beast" next week. He is sitting on his fat arse waiting for me to come up with the master plan for the chassis drawings ( his idea of swapping notes) There are at least another two people sitting in the wings waiting for us to make a hash of it before they join in with a similar build/idea If u want to join the crew, feel free to criticise, laugh and swap notes at the risk of losing what sanity you still have
Shug.

Shug,

I gather you're effeectively using an oversize mcsorley design to fit the engine in are you? just for info for hte new guy

Ned.

These boys use BMW parts in ESTONIA. In fact one of the lads posted stuff on here a while back. See this webby http://www.racetech.ee/

If you look in the members pages for the Estonian based builders.
A guy I used to know in Pinetown SA used BMW power and it was a dragster, ate (then 92) superbikes for breakfast with a 2 litre BM.

Anyone for safe s*X

[Edited on 30-4-04 by mangogrooveworkshop]

Hello everyone, i'm another newbie on here cos me and alistair are planning on building this car together, so thanks for the replies!

JoelP, why would a V engine be easier? obviously we're just starting out so i know very little about this, but surely with a V6 it's a case of making the chassis wider and a straight 6 you'd have to make it longer. the latter option sounds easier to me, but i'd like to hear why i'm wrong! and i like the idea of a bike engine, but i think it would be too much for out limited budget and skills.

Hugh Paterson, i'm glad that other people have had the same idea, that must mean we're not completely stupid! what year/engine bmw are you going to be using? how much of the original car are you going to be using, e.g. can the original running gear, fuel injection be used? if we go ahead with this we'll definitely get in touch to swop notes...

ned, mango, thanks for your help too.

Nick

with the v6 being only 3.5 cylinders long, its just a few inches of width needed (im not sure if you actually have to widen it for some v's, im not doing a book build), the +4 build (book but 4inches wider) is quite a common occurance, many people have done this. However, adding length to the engine bay i think is less common, so you have to make your own plans.

not much in it either way really, i didnt use any plans at all, just bodged it on the way. means you chop a few bits off if it doesnt work, but the result is still the same ish.

V engines are shorter, and if its like mine, wider at the top.

a locost engine compartment is wider at the top too....


atb

steve

Short answer: wider is easier than longer.
By all means use a straight six but it will be harder than using a V6. If you want 150bhp and six cylinders you could do a lot worse than a 2.9 ford lump, it's heavy but I'd imagine a mid 80s bmw lump isn't exactly a featherweight in comparison.
The Rover V8 is quite a lot lighter than the Cologne and gives similar power (but much more torque, and more power with relative ease).

so it seems a V6 is the way forward then?

i've just had a quick look on ebay, it seems all the 2.9 sierras are 4x4. there were a few 2.8 xr4s though, which i'm assuming is RWD. how does the 2.8 engine compare to the 2.9?

thanks again for your help,

nick

That's the main problem really, the gearbox.
All 2.9 sierras were 4x4 indeed and pretty much all 2.9 granadas were auto I think.
A 4cyl type 9 will not fit a V6 either.
Welcome to the world of doing it a bit differently
To answer you q about the 2.8, it's got a more fragile cam drive and siamese (2 each side, not 3) exhaust ports which limit tuning quite a lot.
The 2.9 has a chain driven cam (I think) and the full 6 exhaust ports.
Both make about the same power.

[Edited on 1/5/04 by mackie]

sounds like the xr4i is the donor car we want. i'm not too worried about lack of tuning or chocolate camchains, because we could always bung in a 2.9 engine in the future if the 2.8 breaks or we want to tune it. i'm assuming that the 2 engines will fit the same gearbox?

thanks for your help mackie.

the lesser made 2.4 cologne made at same time as 2.9 often had a manual box. So, if you can find a 2.4 granada in a scrappy you could get the box. (made between about 1986 - 1989)

Or do what I did - just fit the 2.4 with the manual box. 130hp using that option tho....

pics of my engine on the web site

atb

steve

[Edited on 1/5/04 by stephen_gusterson]

The short answer to converting this is to get a gearbox from a 2 litre DOHC, as these will fit in place of the four wheel drive box, plus the 4x4 box, if any good is highly salable.

does the 2litre box have the longer input shaft?

This has been a topic of discussion before, if it was a simple as using the mt75 from the dohc i'm sure I would have read it.
Mackie's tip for the day: if you want an engine like that use a Rover V8.

I am informed by a guy that works for Hendy's that the mt75 g/box fitted to the 2ltr DOHC is a straight swop onto the V6 engine. The 4x4 box, as I understand it, is an mt75 fitted with the transfer box, which is dificult, if not impossable to remove.

From what I've read on here the V6 type 9 has a different input shaft to the 4 cylinder types.
ChrisW I believe had quite a lot of fun finding a suitable 'box for his 2.9 cologne.
I'm no expert though, if what you say is true then that's great.

I suspect that we'll use the v6 over the bmw.

We were just wondering, since the sierra rear end and steering were different from the escort, if there was any reason to stick with the ford or just grab a beamer.

The current status is - phone up Adrian Flux for a chat about insurance.

Cheers,

Alistair.

Not all of us.
I still use BMW M20B25. (It's 170Hp, and you can easaly rise up to 190-200 Hp).
The length is not a problem at all. The main problem for me is that the engine is quite high, so I need to think how to hide it under a bonnet. But R6 engine is much smoother than V6. Don't know wich of them is heavier.
Also you need to think of front and rear suspenssion. I have found a way to create a rear suspension, and it looks quite a good "on paper". But front suspension is still "pain in the ass" for me.

Just to recover the Ford V6 debate, a bit of bull byproduct being spread again! Mackie is right on all his points made!!

The 2.9 V6 will NOT fit the 2.0 DOHC MT75 'box because the bellhousing is cast-in and the V6 one is very different to all 4-cyl Ford engines. What would work is the get the 2.9 and fit the 2.8 capri or sierra XR4I or Granada 2.8 (mk 2 or 3) gearbox to it. Alternatively get a non v-6 Type 9 sierra 'box, uprate it with the input shaft and heavy duty layshaft bearings of the V6 'box and fit it using the bellhousing from one of the above OR the bellhousing from a 2.8 XR4x4 sierra, as this used the Type 9 'box with a transfer 'box bolted to the back. (obviously with a different mainshaft before anybody says!!!)