After building a few seven (BEC) with a lightweight concept I'm starting a new project. Goal is a fun car with a good shape and a V12 engine on a tight budget. So I started with buying a complete BMW 750 donor car. I will use an Audi 6 speed gearbox from a S8.
First thing is to get the rough dimensions so I can start with the bodywork.
I would prefer to buy a complete set of bodywork but there is not much next to Lambo and GT40's (any tips?)
I am very enthousiast about the (round) shape of the Zonda so this is my starting point. Next thing is to collect things like windows and lights.
I could use any hints about the front (and other) window what to use.......

I will start on the chassis after finishing the body which is for me the most complicated part of the car. I do have some experience in building chassis so this should not be to hard.


Image deleted by owner

Image deleted by owner



Inspiration-1



[Edited on 6/1/06 by erwe]

[Edited on 6/1/06 by erwe]

Thats a bloody great engine to go in.

Hi Erwe

I Have seen some of your previous work and will follows this project with interest. Seems you are not scared of work! Think there was a thread on here somewhere a while ago re a suitable screen. Have you considered a GT40 screen?

Cheers

Fred WB

The Lambolounge has a write up on a guy who mated a BMW v12 and an audi gearbox ( IIRC ) which may be of use. Your project sounds great. Not long ago there was a Chevron B16 (I think) shell on eBay which would have made a lovely special especially if you are after the retro style. Good luck.

http://www.lambolounge.com/Chassis/Engine/BMW-V12/BMW.asp

[Edited on 6/1/06 by rsk289locost]

Sorry it was a B8

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587824500

I using this engine in my scratch build midi.




http://hometown.aol.co.uk/andycanam/GTTpage2.html

Andygtt, ihad a look at your site some time ago, what body will you use?
I saw you had a post on Audi boxes, are these from the S8 series?

Maybe a good idea to take measurements on the engine (L x W x H + mounting points, etc) for future reference?

Why not a bodyshell of a old “East German” Trabant. They are from fibreglass and easy to modify. Trabant V12 sounds like fun to me!!!

Roy.

the newly bought pilgrim minotaur has a very large arse to it which is designed to house chevy V8's

quote:

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Originally posted by akumabito
Maybe a good idea to take measurements on the engine (L x W x H + mounting points, etc) for future reference?

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quote:

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Originally posted by cornishrob
the newly bought pilgrim minotaur has a very large arse to it which is designed to house chevy V8's

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Rescued attachment Exeter GTCar.jpg

quote:

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Originally posted by erwe
Andygtt, ihad a look at your site some time ago, what body will you use?
I saw you had a post on Audi boxes, are these from the S8 series?

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quote:

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Originally posted by andygtt...I'm not as keen on them entirelly down to the fact that to get reasonable drive shaft angles the engine is actually 8inches higher than mine is with my Porsche unit.

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In my Audi 016 trans setup, with a ride height of 80 mm from the ground to the bottom of the sump/adaptor plate lower edge to the ground, the drive shafts run upward at 10 degrees, which is apparently okay for the CV's

Cheers

Fred WB

drive train


[Edited on 7/1/06 by Fred W B]

Fred, that picture is a good example especially if you compare it to mine on the previous page. In mine the table represents ride height of 140mm at the adapter plate.

My drive shaft angle points down at ride height.... but under 2/3 compression they go horizontal.
However its only really an issue if you are running large BHP and need them to be optimum for reliability and losses.

Edited to add that the std sump in the BMW adds over 4 inches to my dry sump setup.

[Edited on 7/1/06 by andygtt]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Allanson

quote:

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Originally posted by cornishrob
the newly bought pilgrim minotaur has a very large arse to it which is designed to house chevy V8's

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Like this one?

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Minataur is nice, but what about side windows?
i dont suppose its possible with such a curvature. Same thing spoils the ultima, for me, a supercar should be fully functional and if your
going to have a roof, then the windows should wind up and down.
This is quite nice, although i'm not entirely convinced by the back end styling.
It also uses leccy windows from the corvette doner, which earns my vote.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/gtmgallery.html

[Edited on 8/1/06 by Wadders]

I would like to know if that GTM windscreen is available from other suppliers. I've been contacting them a while ago and they told me I could not order it from them.

The Minotaur has definitely some pagani lines in it. If you have a look at the other pictures on their website you will see it.

Their description:
DOT front windshield

Is there anyone who can help me on this?

Geoff

[Edited on 8/1/06 by geoffreyh]

I think the Minotaur is a little overdone.
The GTM is a very nice car, but to much USA style.
I will have a look at rear windscreens on production cars to see if there is one wich I can use for front windscreen.
Andy, that difference in ride height is because the Porsche trans is upside down?
Do you have pictures of your bodywork?

I suspect our ride height difference is purelly down to different appication/use.

I have set mine up to run 110mm front 150mm rear at the axle C/L's..... however for track use this will be able to be dropped a lot without effecting roll centres.

My body is hardly started so not really representative of what it will look like when complete. Its going to be a convertible with storable hard top, scissor doors, electric windows (hated this about my Ultima) and electric seats.... and yes I am going soft.

Cool project!
What are you going to do with the ECU?
How about the body of the Aeon 420?

An nice Z8 replica based on a Cobra replica chassis isn't an option?

[Edited on 9/1/06 by ettore bugatti]

where would one find a Z8 replica body ??

Cheers.

8" is quite a lot especially for a gearbox!!

The Audi box has the input shaft around 4" higher than the output shafts and the Porsche has the input shaft around 4" lower than the input shaft. A case of two 4's not sounding as much as one 8

Advantage of the Porsche is obviously that the CofG is lower with all the cornering and braking advantages but at a cost and availability issue.

There is a cheaper method. Turn a transverse box round by 180 degrees. Bingo the input shaft is below the output shafts the only bugger is you now have 5 reverse gears and one forward gear.

Hmm - easy! Reverse the CWP. Worked on my Renault UN1 box dunno about the Audi though.

Beware though there is another disadvantage the GOG is now so low the sump scrapes along the deck so drysumping is now required - at least thats what I have to do with my Rover.

Ah well a Lowcosters life is never easy - fun though!!

I got some information about the EMS 8860 Sequentieel motorsport and the Stinger
http://www.emsnorthamerica.com/
The prices are from Euro 800 til 1300
Very interesting option is that it is upgradable with turbo!

I am looking for a windscreen, the Mazda RX7 1994 seems good to me, I have to measure it to be sure.

quote:

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Originally posted by dr-fastlane
Why not a bodyshell of a old “East German” Trabant. They are from fibreglass and easy to modify.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geoffreyh
I would like to know if that GTM windscreen is available from other suppliers. I've been contacting them a while ago and they told me I could not order it from them.

The Minotaur has definitely some pagani lines in it. If you have a look at the other pictures on their website you will see it.

Their description:
DOT front windshield

Is there anyone who can help me on this?

Geoff

[Edited on 8/1/06 by geoffreyh]

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Well I know that the Ultima screen is the same as the stealths and that can come with a heated screen for the same money......

I was thinking on a Smart Roadster front screen an side screens from an Opel Tigra convertible.
I will buy an Audi gearbox (6 speed) with a very low ratio (1:3) from a race company

hi erwe!
sounds like an intresting project!
a quick question on the 750 im intrested in how much it would cost and where would you pick one up ?

Cheers

j

[Edited on 29/5/06 by Big Jim]

The fun of such a project is that you can get a donor for a few 100 pounds.

Sounds cool!
I just did a wee flea bay search but dragged up 1 750 but it was £2,000 + not hit reserve
Any good salvage yards I should be looking at
Cheers
J

Mine was 600 Euros in the Netherlands, thats where I live.

looks like you may need to modify the chassis a bit
the exhaust looks as though it will foul on the support tube right next to it. or perhaps thats just a bad angle for the picture.

Hi andygtt!
Just went to your home page and wow I must say.
5.0 v12 twin turbo that is quite a mind boggling thought have you figured out roughly how many HP it will be when fully tuned?
Also as you have had an Ultima would you say that the BMW engine would fit in its own cradle?
Cheers

James

[Edited on 29/5/06 by Big Jim]

Just so you know I lost my password to my andygtt user id a while ago and had to create a new ID not using AOL.

Violet
The picture is deceptive, the thing that is making the exhaust tight is actually the diagonal. The main chassis rails leave loads of room.
I thought of making the diagonal removable so that the manifold will be easier to fit, however I decided that would compramise the chassis too much.

I got a running 750 for £500... however I also got an another 2 engines off ebay one for £150 and another one for £10!
Just keep your eyes open for those bargains.


I didn't understand the cradle question, they have been fitted to Ultimas if that's what you mean?

Rgds
andygtt

Thank you!
what i was trying to ask is if a bmw v12 fits an ultima.
sorry for the badly writen question.
but thanks for the answer any way
cheers
james

I've been in contact with Jens Larsson. He is building his 750 biturbo engine.

He has a topic in a swedish forum but he will probably make an english transation of his notes.

He gave me also a link to a website from another person: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/

Have fun,

Geoff

[Edited on 10/6/06 by geoffreyh]

How about this LMK 917 or Revolta

[Edited on 13/7/06 by ZEN]

I found some new information about 750 turbo projects on Jens Larssons forum topic.

Here is a Czech car
http://www.volny.cz/bmw750ial/
http://forum.lazzat.se/attachment.php?attachmentid=13639

And a heavily boosted german E30
http://forum.lazzat.se/attachment.php?attachmentid=13640
http://www.rmotorsport.com/saku/e30v12_rmotorsport.wmv

Have fun

Geoff

[Edited on 12/8/06 by geoffreyh]

What about the lola T70? A car designed to take chavy V8, so BMW V12 must be possible too.

http://www.bell-performance.co.uk/




[Edited on 25/8/06 by Werner Van Loock]

hi,

does any one know the diamiter of the bore on the bmw v12 engine?

blake

89 - 98mm, depending on year.

Google is how I found this...

I think you will find the old BMW V12's are 84mm I know the M70 is and I think the M73 and S70 get extra capacity with stroke rather than bore but will need to check.

thanks for the info guys

and the block is aluminum do you have a ball park figure for the weight of the block alone?

quote:

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Originally posted by ceebmoj
thanks for the info guys

and the block is aluminum do you have a ball park figure for the weight of the block alone?

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block alone weighs 34kgs, crank 25 all in with my turbos and manifolds etc it weighed 184kgs so I expect about 220kgs when the dry sump alternator etc is fitted.

thanks for the fugures.