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Red light camera
redscamp - 8/8/09 at 08:55 AM

Red light camera -
Last night i was flashed in Edinburgh, 40mph dual carriage way.
the light had just changed (yes i know amber means stop)
My question is does a flash mean a bust or is there some lee way?

twybrow - 8/8/09 at 09:01 AM

Busted. They will send you a letter telling you how many seconds it was red for. Bad luck!

mistergrumpy - 8/8/09 at 09:02 AM

Your only lee way is if there was a camera in the thing. Sometimes they leave them flashing without it but otherwise that's it. There's no discriminating with it, you're either in the wrong or in the right.

omega0684 - 8/8/09 at 09:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mistergrumpy
There's no discriminating with it, you're either in the wrong or in the right.


not true, depending on how adverse the conditions were you can argue that there was insufficient distance to stop safely and you had to go threw the light, otherwise you would have caused an accident/incident?

loggyboy - 8/8/09 at 09:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
not true, depending on how adverse the conditions were you can argue that there was insufficient distance to stop safely and you had to go threw the light, otherwise you would have caused an accident/incident?

I sincerely doubt a magistrate would accept that as your driving speed shoudl adapt to the road conditions to allow for the fact that the lights may turn red.

I have only been flashed once before by a red light camera and never heard anything.

They have 14 days to issue a NIP, so just hope. If it does arrive ask for the evidence (more than just one photo, to prove you didnt stop just over the line).

Have a nose on here http://www.speed-trap.co.uk for more info allthough its based around speed the NIP information applys to red light cameras (allthough im not sure how uptodate it is kept anymore_


[Edited on 8/8/09 by loggyboy]

graememk - 8/8/09 at 09:44 AM

ask to see a photo of the driver as you cant remember being out in your car, is it possible your car has been cloned ?

MikeRJ - 8/8/09 at 09:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
not true, depending on how adverse the conditions were you can argue that there was insufficient distance to stop safely and you had to go threw the light, otherwise you would have caused an accident/incident?


Red light cameras are only active after the light has gone red, so you have to be going through the lights when they are either full red or just as they are turning red. If you go through on a clear amber you won't get flashed. The only defence you have against red light cameras is if you moved out of the way of an emergency vehicle, and even then they will still sometimes ticket you.

loggyboy - 8/8/09 at 09:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by graememk
ask to see a photo of the driver as you cant remember being out in your car, is it possible your car has been cloned ?


I dont think that works anymore. They used to be a grey area of the law that allowed you to not sign the paper work that they asked you to fill in telling them who was the driver at the time of the offence, therefore making it inadmissable as eveidence, which often meant they never persued it past the NIP stage (I managed that 2 times when it was rear facing cameras and it worked, i tried it on a front facing where you could see half my face and i got done in court) .
Im pretty sure its been closed now and you HAVE to tell them who was driving and as the owner you have a responcibility to know who was driving it. You would need a really good excuse not know it.

That what the 14day notice is all about, if the notice is served after 14 days then you can argue (legally) that you forgot who was driving.

[Edited on 8/8/09 by loggyboy]

Steve G - 8/8/09 at 10:22 AM

I'm pretty sure some cameras at traffic lights are also acting as speed cameras too. Isnt it a double flash though on these cameras??

Brook_lands - 8/8/09 at 10:54 AM

NIP has to be sent out (not received) to the registered keeper within 14 days of the offence so I'm afraid you have got to wait 17 or 18 days before you know you are in the clear if you are the registered keeper.

If you are not the registered keeper (lease car, hire car, company car etc.) then it can bounce around for a while before it finally catches up with you.

Not naming the driver is a 172 offence (worse than the £60 and 3 points), and claiming you can't remember who, your Austrailian cousin, man you just met in a pub... was driving will see you in court defending a perverting the course of justice charge - very serious.

However, usually 2 flashes (and 2 photos) one when you cross the line and a second showing you continued across the junction. If it was one flash you could be lucky but if you get a NIP full evidence is often not provided until you decline the offer of a fixed penalty and have your day in court. (See rule 2)

Remember the rules

1 you are a driver therefore you are guilty

2 if you are innocent and protest, rule 1 still applies but you need to be more harshly punished to teach you a lesson for being misguided enough to think you could possibly not be guilty.

Paradoxia0 - 8/8/09 at 01:58 PM

I agree with Brook_lands

A friend of mine got flashed doing 45 in a 40. He honestly thought it was a 50 and was on a gentle drive with his other half on a Sunday afternoon (don't you just hate those sorts!)

He wrote a letter back apologising, explained he didn't realise he had passed into a 40 zone and he was enjoying the scenery with the misses (etc. etc.) they tore up the 3points and £60 and sent him 4 points and a £120 fine. Definitely a case of "don't you bloody dare get out of it, if it was you and you were in the wrong and you contest you get more punishment for trying it on"...

Mark

mad-butcher - 8/8/09 at 04:45 PM

what an idiot fancy admitting you weren't paying attention, no wonder they went higher.

tony

mistergrumpy - 8/8/09 at 04:51 PM

quote:

not true, depending on how adverse the conditions were you can argue that there was insufficient distance to stop safely and you had to go threw the light, otherwise you would have caused an accident/incident?


Yep, I meant it more literally though as in you either went through or you didn't, arguments aside.

bmseven - 8/8/09 at 07:31 PM

If it flashed it caught you crossing the white line after the light had changed to red.

Assuming the V5 is in your name and at your current address if you have NOT received a NIP within 14 days from the offence you are free