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Selling shell without ID - is that legal ?
pdm - 17/8/10 at 09:01 PM

Hi

I'm getting ready to lift my MX5 bodywork of its subframe/connecting chassis beam. The VIN plates are on the bodywork, the subframes are simply connected with a beam.

That will leave me with a decent MX5 body - front legs. bulkhead, floor, sills and rear panels boot etc etc.

I'm going to keep my V5 and the VIN plates so I can go for an age related plate.

Anyway I stand a chance of selling this shell for more than scrap as the MX5 enthusiasts are always after sills, rear panels and a few brave souls build track cars.

Soooo, what I wanted to know was is it legal to sell a chassis without VIN plates to be used for track or spares ?

Even if it is, morally it seems a bit dodgy as I can see some unscrupulous person buying it and then applying a different crashed ID to it - thoughts ?

thanks
Paul

[Edited on 17/8/10 by pdm] to correct my spelling !!

[Edited on 17/8/10 by pdm]

eddie99 - 17/8/10 at 09:02 PM

Im pretty sure its legal, most people including myself have done it, its the same as companies selling Chassis's is it not?

MakeEverything - 17/8/10 at 09:07 PM

But you cant change the chassis number on a V5, so how would someone register the chassis without "Ringing" it?

adithorp - 17/8/10 at 09:13 PM

The chassis still has it's ID as the vin is stamped into the chassis, as well as being on the plate. As long as the chassis isn't stolen then you're OK. There may be problems though if the buyer rebuilds the car and tries to obtain a new V5 and then you later try to register you car using the VIN/V5 for age related plate. Might be complicated. DVLA don't do complicated.

adrian

Humbug - 17/8/10 at 09:17 PM

Remove/grind off the VIN numbers from the shell before you sell it so there is no danger of someone applying for a V5 on the same ID. (also remove the reg plates!)

Or sell the doors, etc. individually then scrap what's left?

[Edited on 17.08.2010 by Humbug]

cliftyhanger - 17/8/10 at 10:00 PM

I really don't see the problem at all. Somebody else may well want to rebuild their car using part/all of the shell, but they will need to supply their own V5. The dodgy part is selling a V5 with no metalwork.....

And I know it does no "strictly" follow the DVLA rules, but if somebody has a terminally damaged shell then surely it can't be doing anybody any harm. As above, just make sure there is no ID at all left on it when you part company with it. And give a receipt for mx5 panels or something....

Paul TigerB6 - 17/8/10 at 11:13 PM

What you're suggesting sounds no different to those registering various kit cars on a V5 you supplied yourself (from a Dutton!!!).

How often does that come up on this site and everyone slates the practice as being illegal!!

Selling the shell wont be illegal, but pretty sure that someone trying to register it on another car's V5 will be!!!

Canada EH! - 18/8/10 at 12:14 AM

Caution, there will be more than one VIN # stamped into the body shell, they are put they for theft recovery, Law is different here, kit car must have new VIN # when registered.

mark chandler - 18/8/10 at 12:29 AM

Its not illegal to move all the stuff across and keep you original reg.

I have seen MKII escorts with F plate designations, these were rally cars that were smashed and reshelled into MKII bodies.

As the majority of the car was the original they were allowed to keep the registration.

More danger of them trying to register with the original plate, mucking your registration up.

cliftyhanger - 18/8/10 at 06:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
What you're suggesting sounds no different to those registering various kit cars on a V5 you supplied yourself (from a Dutton!!!).


What I am suggesting may happen is very different. The shell will be used to rebuild another mx5, the same car effectively. Wheras people who buy an old duttonV5 to register a new Kitcar (I am assuming to avoid paying for an IVA and get round lots of regulations) will always have a car that bears little resemblence to the logbook. But will always get away with it as by their nature kitcars are nearly always individual.

The classic car scene is FULL of cars that have been reshelled from solid used parts. My "marque" went through a stage about 15 years ago of US imported tubs/chassis etc as many were rustfree and made it much cheaper to restore a rusty UK car. And better.

Nah,sell the metal, it is up to the buyer to do with it as they wish. Just keep the ID.

Paul TigerB6 - 18/8/10 at 06:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
What you're suggesting sounds no different to those registering various kit cars on a V5 you supplied yourself (from a Dutton!!!).


What I am suggesting may happen is very different. The shell will be used to rebuild another mx5, the same car effectively.


A different car effectively - according to the DVLA!!!

linky

"When applying for a VIC you'll be asked to declare whether your car’s chassis or monocoque body has been replaced or modified in any way. The information you provide will enable VOSA to decide whether your VIC application can proceed or whether to refer your car to a DVLA local office for inspection, where it'll be assessed in line with DVLA’s rebuild guidelines instead.

If a car fails a VIC because its identity cannot be confirmed, it won't be entitled to retain its original registration mark."

and then....

next linky

"If less than eight points are scored
or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated."

Seems pretty clear to me that there's no case for retaining the original registration so any buyer wouldnt be able to rebuild their own MX5 to keep their own reg, but to avoid the test and Q plate would be forced to apply for the shell's V5!! As said there are more than 1 VIN plate stamped on it so it would only take missing 1 to cause problems and a chassis with no VIN.

Heritage shell's used in the classic car world need documentary evidence of specification and new-ness to enable the original mark to be kept

[Edited on 18/8/10 by Paul TigerB6]

pdm - 18/8/10 at 07:23 AM

Hmmm - thanks everyone.

Bit of a minefield isn't it !! I will remove all ID from the shell first.

I think to sell to someone who's never going to use it on the road - eg wants remaining panels or for track car then it is ok.

But I'm worried as people have pointed out above of people using it to ring another car.

I think I might phone VOSA to check or just scrap the remaining bits and weight it in as metal.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

cheers
Paul

Bluemoon - 18/8/10 at 08:05 AM

Just remove all the ID it will be fine (they will have no way of ringing it then, so long as you don't give reg no or VIN)..

[Edited on 18/8/10 by Bluemoon]

scootz - 18/8/10 at 10:50 AM

^^^^^^^^

Get out Mr Grinder and get rid of any numbers on it first!

prawnabie - 18/8/10 at 11:37 AM

Id weigh it in personally.

pdm - 18/8/10 at 11:48 AM

Hi

I'm erring towards weighing it in as well myself now. Apart from the legalities of it all, it might be easier to take it off it's been chopped first...

Thanks everyone again for input.

cheers
Paul

MikeR - 18/8/10 at 11:59 AM

I've still technically got my mk2 escort on my drive. I cut out the vin numbers, kept the registration plates and every year SORN it. Got a local skip company to take it away from me. They wanted the paperwork to scrap it. I explained i was keeping the legal ownership of it and it was just steel. They where happy once they checked the numbers had been removed (cut out).

(i've kept it so registration should be easier)