IVA Help Required : 09A.19 Brake System
Barkalarr - 28/12/12 at 05:26 PM
In the IVA Manual 09A.19 says :
On a full power hydraulic braking system a warning device must be fitted, operative, and visible or audible to the driver, including in darkness.
Can anyone tell me if I have a "Full Power Hydraulic braking system" ?
I've got an MNR pedalbox with 2 reservoirs (front / back) disks all round. Brake bias has been fixed so you can't adjust it.
Filler cap does not have a "low fluid" sensor, however you can see the levels through the container. See on the left in this picture.
Is this going to fail IVA or do I need to fit the sensors to the reservoir and have a warning light on the dash ?
wylliezx9r - 28/12/12 at 05:46 PM
Yep you have a full power system and will need sensors on the reservoirs. They are tested at IVA. I linked mine to the handbrake switch so that could
test the warning light as most manufacturers do.
ATB Dan.
renetom - 28/12/12 at 06:07 PM
Hi
You will need 2 low fluid" sensors wired together to a momentary illuminated switch
which indicates low level + test facility & handbrake on.
easy enough to do.
If you send me your email via utu , I'll send you a diagram of the switch wiring & my No if you want to discuss it
We have a Sierra handbrake with switch & used a savage switch on the dash.
In our Indy R1.
Good luck
René
You will also need a sticker for brake fluid
near the reservoirs.
[Edited on 28/12/12 by renetom]
Barkalarr - 28/12/12 at 06:12 PM
Thanks Rene - I have alredy wired the hand brake light but will be interested in the wiring diagram for the sensors on the reservoir - I will u2u
Neil
Stott - 28/12/12 at 08:30 PM
This is another bit the inspectors get wrong.
IIRC it says you only need a low level switch with test facility if the only means of checking the fluid level is removing the resevoir cap.
In other words transparant resevoir with high/low marks = no sensor or test switch req'd = pass
Despite this being the case it was still tested on mine (sierra resevoir with level switch as std)
Barkalarr - 28/12/12 at 08:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stott
This is another bit the inspectors get wrong.
IIRC it says you only need a low level switch with test facility if the only means of checking the fluid level is removing the resevoir cap.
In other words transparant resevoir with high/low marks = no sensor or test switch req'd = pass
Despite this being the case it was still tested on mine (sierra resevoir with level switch as std)
That's exactly how I read and interpreted it.
That was the answer I was angling for, thanks
Stott - 28/12/12 at 08:43 PM
Just rechecked the manual and you don't need sensors but how lucky you feel is up to you
You don't have a full power hydraulic brake system as those are pumped types, your car has conventional hydraulic brakes controlled purely by
your foot pressure.
The bit you need to read is IVA manual section 09D RS 16 which is on page 100 of 305 on this link:
IVA MANUAL
AdrianH - 28/12/12 at 08:46 PM
I would say still fit the reservoir sensors, because without removing the bonnet you will still not see the levels.
They just need to be across the handbrake switch and act as another switch.
Adrian
britishtrident - 28/12/12 at 09:14 PM
Transparent reservoirs may cover the Fluid Level monitoring requirement I might be wrong but ISTR if you don't have fluid level
warning light you are required to have a Hydraulic Circuit Failure Warning light (which works on differential pressure switch) a few late
1970's tintops with diagonal split systems had these ---- nothing but trouble and I don't think they will work on dual pedal box.
loggyboy - 28/12/12 at 09:27 PM
You still need level sensors on the reservoirs. Whilst it is true if you have a visual method of checking the fluid level you dont need to satisfy the
need described in RS18, there is a second requirement in RS19 to require a warning light sensitive to line pressure in the system. As an alternative
to this you can have a fluid level sensors which would obviously detect a lack of line pressure in a sealed system.
Barkalarr - 28/12/12 at 09:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stott
Just rechecked the manual and you don't need sensors but how lucky you feel is up to you
You don't have a full power hydraulic brake system as those are pumped types, your car has conventional hydraulic brakes controlled purely by
your foot pressure.
The bit you need to read is IVA manual section 09D RS 16 which is on page 100 of 305 on this link:
IVA MANUAL
This is 09D.16 :
It must be possible to check the fluid relative to the manufacturer’s specified minimum level on all brake fluid reservoirs by the actual fluid level
being visible through a transparent section of the reservoir, with the minimum level marked permanently on to this section. As an alternative, a red
warning lamp (see figure 1) must be capable of illuminating when the reservoir fluid falls to the minimum level.
IMO - I can see the fluid levels through the transparent section of the reservoir - but only when the bonnet is up.
I have a red warning lamp on the dash, but this is for the handbrake and not the fluid levels.
Obviously, this is all open to interpretation, my problem is I'm going to have to mount the sensors in the reservoir cap (which is going to be a
pain in the proverbial)
All the bloody wiring is now done and I was just taking the last step before IVA to re-read the manual and make sure there were no obvious gotchas.
wicket - 28/12/12 at 10:41 PM
You don't need a warning light for the handbrake. The handbrake switch is used wired in series with the float switch(s) on the reservoir as a
convenient way of checking the brake fluid levels.
Peteff - 28/12/12 at 11:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wicket
You don't need a warning light for the handbrake. The handbrake switch is used wired in series with the float switch(s) on the reservoir as a
convenient way of checking the brake fluid levels.
The handbrake switch is used as a means to check that the system is operative and the bulb hasn't gone, not that the level is high enough. Lift
the lid off and the light should come on the dash or on the old Sierra cap there was a button to press in the middle of the cap.
renetom - 29/12/12 at 08:47 AM
Hi
This is the sticker you will need
Car builder solutions do a 2 chamber reservoir with level switch (IVA Ok)
They also do the stickers.
Good luck
[Edited on 29/12/12 by renetom]
Barkalarr - 29/12/12 at 10:21 PM
Rene - thanks for the picture, I'm going to u2u russbost and get him to post one out to me next week.
I've managed today to get my hands on 2 new sensors for the brake fluid level:
Does anyone know what these come off (Suspect Sierra) ? I need to get the plugs for them so they can be wired up. The senders have 3 pins on them.
My sierra has gone to the scrap yard in the sky so I can't check it.
My issue now is that the cap on the fluid reservoir on the car (Linky) is 1.5" and the
sender thread (Linky) is 1.25"
I've had a quick look round but can't find a reducer cap which will allow me to mount this sender in the reservoir. Any ideas?
I'm pretty reluctant to glue the sender to the cap (with a whole cut in it).
More pictures of this sender are in my archive under "indy".
Barkalarr - 29/12/12 at 10:44 PM
Ok, found them Here and how to mount them and the connectors.
Amazing what a phone call to your bro can reveal.
[Edited on 29/12/12 by Barkalarr]
daniel mason - 29/12/12 at 11:16 PM
would it not be easier to just get an MNR supplied resevoir with level sender? they are not expensive and at least will guarentee you dont risk an IVA
fail due to no warning lights. and also it gives a warning when levels are low without removing bonnet
renetom - 30/12/12 at 09:34 AM
Hi
sorry I mean no disrespect
But I think you are going down a long time consuming & expensive
Route which at the end of the day is a bodge.
I suffer with the same thing & always look at the most complicated first.
Whichever way you go, good luck with it.