Failed IVA
907 - 14/2/15 at 09:10 AM
Hi All
OK, it's official, I'm a failure. 
Four items to fix then hopefully it's a pass.
1/
My demister sucks air the from inside the engine bay.
The fix is to block off with a duct that will mate with the underside of the bonnet.
Louvres in the bonnet and jobs a good un.
2/
Brakes need an overhaul. Generally out of balance.
New seals were used when I fitted them but lack of use has made them stiff, some more than others.
A pre MOT would have shown this up. New seals all round and new fluid followed with a rolling road check.
3/
Fog light wired wrong.
Needs to only work with headlights and not work with side lights. Rewire.
4/
My side repeaters failed the 5 deg from the rear visibility test. Obscured by rear wheel arch.
Dennis the tester said, " You have obviously gone to a great deal of trouble to find and fit these. They would have
passed SVA but I've got to fail them." ( see pic )
I'm now looking for a pair of mirrors that have repeaters incorporated and are viewable from behind.
Not the type fitted to bikes that are front indicators and viewable from the front only.
Any help with this would be much appreciated.
Blew a 5a fuse. Pinched a 20a from the tin top.
Headlight out of alinement, adjusted with Dennis's help. ( up a bit, right a bit, that'll do )
It was a long day. Set the alarm for 4.45 woke at 3.15 Set off at 5.45 and arrived at 7.55
By the time everything was put away it was 5pm. A meal, a wash, and in bed at 9.
Knackered, but a grand day out, and a "good fail".
Cheers All
Paul G
Passes SVA but fails IVA
David Jenkins - 14/2/15 at 09:24 AM
As failure lists go, that's a very short one!
That's a good result, if a fail can be good - not a lot to get sorted.
Well done!
rusty nuts - 14/2/15 at 09:25 AM
Bad luck Paul, would have been nice to pass first time but at least they are all easy fixes. Mel
907 - 14/2/15 at 09:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Bad luck Paul, would have been nice to pass first time but at least they are all easy fixes. Mel
If it were still SVA two of those would have passed. An even shorter list.
rusty nuts - 14/2/15 at 09:31 AM
Mine passed SVA with the heater intake inside the engine bay and the repeaters exactly where yours are
David Jenkins - 14/2/15 at 10:01 AM
My repeaters are also in a similar position, although they do stick out a bit further than Paul's. From what I can pick up, I think the tester
would have liked to have passed them, if he could. He sounds as though he was sympathetic.
As for the rest - brakes out of balance, fair enough, just unfortunate that they'd sat around for ages. Fog light, fair enough, just an easy
re-wire. Demist from the engine bay - I can't comment, I don't have demist! I think I'd prefer that it came from outside, but
that's just personal preference anyway.
Probably worth finding out why that fuse went - may be a potential fault, or just a too-small fuse.
[Edited on 14/2/15 by David Jenkins]
CosKev3 - 14/2/15 at 10:10 AM
Not too bad at all 
Surely the demister taking in air from under the bonnet should not fail on a car with no roof?
I can understand the reasoning for a car with a roof, fumes etc.
Indicator position and fog light wiring have been discussed a lot on here 
If your planning on using the side in indicators on scuttle once it's passed test you will need to remove them from the car and put a grommet in
the hole for the retest.
Dick Axtell - 14/2/15 at 10:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
Hi All
OK, it's official, I'm a failure.
Four items to fix then hopefully it's a pass.
Passes SVA but fails IVA
Tough luck - but it happens. Shows that the IVA testers have become more knowledgible.
Of greater and immediate interest are your screen support brackets/stanchions, as shown in your pic. What material are they made from?
I ask because I'm in the process of making my own support brkts, using 6mm Al sheet. Caterham used similar (where I copied the dimensions).
james h - 14/2/15 at 10:48 AM
quote:
Passes SVA but fails IVA
Liking the indicators!
adithorp - 14/2/15 at 10:58 AM
Nice short list.
Shame about the side repeaters as they look great. I think the rear arches are the location that's been found to pass best. If you fit another
set to pass then you'll have to blank those off somehow as you're only allowed one set of side repeaters. Don't think just removing the
bulbs will pass unless the wiring is also removed.
907 - 14/2/15 at 11:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Not too bad at all
Surely the demister taking in air from under the bonnet should not fail on a car with no roof?
I can understand the reasoning for a car with a roof, fumes etc.
Indicator position and fog light wiring have been discussed a lot on here
If your planning on using the side in indicators on scuttle once it's passed test you will need to remove them from the car and put a grommet in
the hole for the retest.
@ CosKev
Their argument would be that you could change things post IVA.
Several have fitted all weather gear as a mod afterwards. Trev D made an ally one.
Need to plate over the hole. It's a complicated shape so no grommet.
@ David.
When wiring I used a small fuse for testing purposes. Make and test one circuit at a time.
Must have left it in. doh!
@ Dick
Windscreen supports cut from 3mm sheet ally. (not strips welded together)
Cheers All
Paul G
Myke 2463 - 14/2/15 at 11:23 AM
Would it be possible to drill the outside edge of the mirror housing and fit small round repeater. i thought that CBS used to sell mirrors with side
repeaters.
CosKev3 - 14/2/15 at 11:25 AM
I thought they could only test what is fitted on the day?
If they could fail them on things you could change after test not many people would pass the test!!
Standard steering wheels/big ugly shields over exhausts/extensions on front indicators etc.
907 - 14/2/15 at 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Myke 2463
Would it be possible to drill the outside edge of the mirror housing and fit small round repeater. i thought that CBS used to sell mirrors with side
repeaters.
That's worth some thought.
Cheers
Paul G
owelly - 14/2/15 at 12:59 PM
Or fashion an offstand for the repeater? An offstand that may fall off in the near future.
John Bonnett - 14/2/15 at 01:22 PM
You are certainly not a failure Paul. Your car is a work of art. beautifully crafted, well engineered and one that anyone would have been proud to
have built.
Thank you for the heads up on wiring the rear fog light. I would have done exactly the same as you and wired it through the side lights. I'm in
the middle of wiring my car now so still time to change it.
As for the other items; all trivial and easily rectified. I'd say, a good result Paul.
snapper - 14/2/15 at 03:15 PM
I have seen the small round repeaters fitted to the headlight bowl or the outer edge of the front wing
maccmike - 14/2/15 at 04:07 PM
I think youve done good there.
When U IVA mine Im going to get an mot station to go over it.
I like the indicator detail.
Andybarbet - 14/2/15 at 05:43 PM
If you remove the scuttle mounted indicators for the iva retest, I have some brushed stainless steel effect offcuts that are about 0.80mm thick at
work, I could send you some so that you could loosen the windscreen supports, push these behind to cover the triangle hole & then re tighten the
windscreen supports to hold in position.
Drop me a u2u if you are interested, it's from some heavy duty equipment labels that we use at work, I don't think it will even notice &
you can put back how it was afterwards without too much hassle.
I can pop a couple of bits in the post for you.
[Edited on 14/2/15 by Andybarbet]
907 - 14/2/15 at 06:58 PM
^^^^^^^^
Thank you very much for the offer Andy.
I do have some 0.9 that will do the job.
So what do we think of these?
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/stick-on-amber-led-indicator-pair-leda9
Fit them down the outside edge and round to the underside of the mirror.
Wire would almost be hidden under the mirror.
After IVA I would like a pair of ally bullet shape race mirrors (convex) as they would be in keeping with the car.
I'm sure the present mirrors will find a home.
Cheers
Paul G
David Jenkins - 14/2/15 at 08:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
So what do we think of these?
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/stick-on-amber-led-indicator-pair-leda9
Fit them down the outside edge and round to the underside of the mirror.
Wire would almost be hidden under the mirror.
I'd be worried about type approval - the one advantage of fitting lights with approval marks is that the tester can't complain about the
light itself, only about where it's fitted.
This is assuming that those lights haven't got an approval mark, of course.
Oops - just noticed that they are marked E11 - so the only issue would be whether your indicator circuit would work OK with a LED light in circuit.
Probably get away with a load resistor somewhere though.
I wonder what the sidewards visibility would be like if mounted the way you suggest...
[Edited on 14/2/15 by David Jenkins]
Angel Acevedo - 14/2/15 at 09:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by 907
So what do we think of these?
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/stick-on-amber-led-indicator-pair-leda9
Fit them down the outside edge and round to the underside of the mirror.
Wire would almost be hidden under the mirror.
I'd be worried about type approval - the one advantage of fitting lights with approval marks is that the tester can't complain about the
light itself, only about where it's fitted.
This is assuming that those lights haven't got an approval mark, of course.
Oops - just noticed that they are marked E11 - so the only issue would be whether your indicator circuit would work OK with a LED light in circuit.
Probably get away with a load resistor somewhere though.
I wonder what the sidewards visibility would be like if mounted the way you suggest...
[Edited on 14/2/15 by David Jenkins]
Hi 907.
I completely agree with John Bonnett who wrote "You are certainly not a failure Paul. Your car is a work of art. beautifully crafted, well
engineered and one that anyone would have been proud to have built"
My build is pretty low standard compared to what you guys go through in UK, so as I said in a previous post, I have plenty of time to faff around in
the Internet, so I took the decision to download IVA Manual and try to comply with it for the remainder of the build...
I am in the process of selecting what items are worth pursuing and which not...
Regarding side repeaters Method of Inspection and Required Standards, it Does Not ask for E marked Lights.
It also does not ask for a minimum Intensity, so I would think a big enough LED embedded on the Mirror Housing may pass; wiring then could be run
within the mirror, I cant make up how your mirrors are mounted, any chance the Pylons are Hollow??
Then cables may run within those too.
HTH.
AA
rusty nuts - 14/2/15 at 10:24 PM
Would those lights be seen as being a permanent fitting Paul ?
907 - 14/2/15 at 10:58 PM
Possibly not Mel, but nothing was said about the interior mirror held in place with mounting tape.
I have a mix of led & bulbs so I think that led repeaters wouldn't be a problem David.
No hollow stems AA. No such luck.
To be honest I can't get my head round the need for a side indicator to be seen from the rear (almost) of the car.
From the point that Dennis (the tester) marked on the floor the view of the side repeater was blocked by the rear arch,
but on that very arch is the rear light unit, part of which is the rear indicator.
The indicator is blocked by the indicator. (shrug)
The other thing that puzzles me is that for IVA the view is predominately from the rear.
Side repeaters on production cars are viewable predominantly from the front.
Still, if a hoop is held up I suppose we must jump though it.
If anyone spots a production car with mirrors that would pass please let me know.
I've got a feeling the price would be ott though.
Cheers
Paul G
p.s. thanks for the complements btw.
Angel Acevedo - 14/2/15 at 11:09 PM
Digging into IVA manual Part 23 Direction Indicators.
Note 3 of the Method of inspection states:
TextNote 3: In addition, on M1 vehicles less than 6 m in length,
side-marker lamps may be used, if they supplement the angles
of visibility requirements of front indicator lamps or rear
indicator lamps where the obligatory lamps do not meet.
So to the letter: M1 Vehicles are not Mandatory .
Side repeaters are optional.
Unless my understanding of english is different to yours. Then: If you don´t install Side Repeaters, you don´t need to comply with thee "Required
Standard"
Bear (Sp?) with me as english is my second language and when I say english I mean "Colonies" english.
Regards
Angel Acevedo
What the hell with my connection??
I have to send reply twice..
Just after typing....
Angel Acevedo - 14/2/15 at 11:24 PM
JJJ...
I came up with my previous post after reading IVA Pass Sheet from Rob55
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=185399&page=3
Where it states wheelbase 2320 mm....
According to IVA Side Repeaters MUST be within 2600 mm from front of vehicle....
So to the letter the rear archs might be a good place to place repeaters...
If you want....
If not abide by Note 3 as in my previous post....
Food for thought.
AA
907 - 15/2/15 at 08:44 AM
Hi AA
I think that it's down to how you interpret the wording.
Side markers I would say are constant lights, i.e. not flashing. I have them down the side of my trailer.
Repeaters are part of the indicator / hazard lights, and are mandatory, but only one each side.
I'm sure Dennis the tester would have said if removal was an option.
I did know of the 2600mm measurement as I did at one stage consider putting repeaters on the roll bar uprights.
I already have wires inside it feeding a high level brake light.
Again my interpretation, but I would say measuring from the front of the car is the point on the front of my nose,
which means 2600mm comes to the front of the seat wings, well short of the rear arches. ( see pic )
Thank you anyway for your help, and indeed everyone that has contributed to this thread.
Cheers
Paul G
repeaters to be within 2600mm
Myke 2463 - 15/2/15 at 09:03 AM
Caterham, GBS and Westfield are using the side repeaters on the front wing.
David Jenkins - 15/2/15 at 11:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Myke 2463
Caterham, GBS and Westfield are using the side repeaters on the front wing.
Got this picture off Westfield's official site - shows nicely where one of their customers put their side indicators.
I reckon you could get away with sticking those LED strips on the side of your front wings without having to drill holes. Removing them and
retro-fitting your originals would be really easy after the IVA re-test. You'd have to ensure that the wiring is properly fixed away from the
top of the tyre and the suspension, but that's just a matter of attention to detail, and you're good at that!
907 - 15/2/15 at 01:02 PM
Back in the days when I owned bikes the fashion was to not have mudguards but to have a "hugger" fitted.
Well, that's what I've got on the car.
With 10mm of clearance I thought that aesthetics and aerodynamics are more important than having room
to run wires. Just got to avoid gravel drives.
Paul G
David Jenkins - 15/2/15 at 01:59 PM
Well, twin wires are only about 3mm thick at their narrowest!
And, after all, they only have to be 'safe and legal' for a few hours...
daniel mason - 15/2/15 at 02:11 PM
That car looks epic!
I'd just sit staring at it if it was in my garage,and get nothing done at all!
907 - 15/2/15 at 02:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That car looks epic!
I'd just sit staring at it if it was in my garage,and get nothing done at all!
That's why it's taken so long to build.
I just sat staring at it. 
907 - 15/2/15 at 02:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Well, twin wires are only about 3mm thick at their narrowest!
And, after all, they only have to be 'safe and legal' for a few hours...
A few hours is about the limit.
The first stone that picks up in the tyre tread would cut through the wire in an instant.
The sparks would fly as well. A downside to having a bare metal body and chassis.
The whole car is just a giant negative terminal.
I wonder if Dennis would let me go up the day before and sweep the compound ?
I'm going to order those flexy led strips and have a play with them.
Cheers
Paul G
David Jenkins - 15/2/15 at 02:43 PM
I'm sure that you could fabricate a bit of aluminium to cover the wire!
[Edited on 15/2/15 by David Jenkins]
907 - 15/2/15 at 04:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I'm sure that you could fabricate a bit of aluminium to cover the wire!
[Edited on 15/2/15 by David Jenkins]
Fabricate ? Fabricate ? Isn't that what MP's do with expense accounts ?
rusty nuts - 15/2/15 at 04:17 PM
I've got a pair if you want them Paul , I can take them to work (between Thaxted and Saffron Walden) if it's any help
907 - 15/2/15 at 05:02 PM
I've ordered those flexy led strips from CBS now Mel, thanks all the same.
I'm chained to the workshop anyway this week, finishing off a job for JLR.
I worked today to make up for Friday's IVA trip. O the joys of self employment.
Cheers
Paul G
ctwv50 - 15/2/15 at 11:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
I've ordered those flexy led strips from CBS now Mel, thanks all the same.
I'm chained to the workshop anyway this week, finishing off a job for JLR.
I worked today to make up for Friday's IVA trip. O the joys of self employment.
Cheers
Paul G
Lovely car. I wish i had those skills. With regards to the flexi repeater strips, I fitted mine as shown in this image. I'll let you know how I
get on. Tests in a week.
Oops
[Edited on 15/2/15 by ctwv50]
907 - 16/2/15 at 09:13 AM
Looks good mate. I hadn't thought of mounting them low & facing back.
Good luck for your IVA.
Cheers
Paul G
The Black Flash - 16/2/15 at 03:09 PM
quote:
Lovely car. I wish i had those skills. With regards to the flexi repeater strips, I fitted mine as shown in this image. I'll let you know how I
get on. Tests in a week.
Oops
[Edited on 15/2/15 by ctwv50]
Position-wise, those'll be fine - I have an email from VOSA's policy department to that effect, and its where mine are.
OP - lovely car BTW - can you run the cables in some unslit convoluted sleeving, out of the hole where your current repeaters are, zip tie them to the
mirror supports, and stick the indicators to the mirrors?
I think the reason that the side repeater visibility is predominantly from the rear is that it's more for when you are in someone's blind
spot on the motorway, rather than when turning out of a junction. And repeaters are definately mandatory, as said above, side markers are static
lights for lorries etc.
Dick Axtell - 16/2/15 at 05:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
@ Dick
Windscreen supports cut from 3mm sheet ally. (not strips welded together). Paul G
Thanks for that bit of info. Gives me more confidence in my 6mm thick stanchions.
ctwv50 - 16/2/15 at 08:07 PM
quote:
Position-wise, those'll be fine - I have an email from VOSA's policy department to that effect, and its where mine are.
Good to know thanks.
907 - 16/2/15 at 09:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell
quote:
Originally posted by 907
@ Dick
Windscreen supports cut from 3mm sheet ally. (not strips welded together). Paul G
Thanks for that bit of info. Gives me more confidence in my 6mm thick stanchions.
Hi Dick
The top part of my triangle falls on the 125 rad of the scuttle, and then I needed a sharp crease. (see pic)
This wasn't the easiest shape to form in 3mm. I would imagine 6 will be harder to shape.
Just a thought.
Pic also shows the shape of the hole needed for the Mitsi repeater, or not as the case may be.
Cheers
Paul G
Description
ken555 - 17/2/15 at 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
The top part of my triangle falls on the 125 rad of the scuttle, and then I needed a sharp crease. (see pic)
This wasn't the easiest shape to form in 3mm. I would imagine 6 will be harder to shape.
Can't you laminate another sheet of 3mm or 2 sheets of 2mm on top ?
907 - 22/2/15 at 05:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
Hi All
OK, it's official, I'm a failure.
Four items to fix then hopefully it's a pass.
1/
My demister sucks air the from inside the engine bay.
The fix is to block off with a duct that will mate with the underside of the bonnet.
Louvres in the bonnet and jobs a good un.
I got a chance to make a start on the IVA fail items this weekend and hopefully item 1 is now sorted.
I even got a start on the repeaters. Will post a pic of them when finished.
Cheers
Paul G
Description
Description
John Bonnett - 22/2/15 at 06:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 907
Hi All
OK, it's official, I'm a failure.
Four items to fix then hopefully it's a pass.
1/
My demister sucks air the from inside the engine bay.
The fix is to block off with a duct that will mate with the underside of the bonnet.
Louvres in the bonnet and jobs a good un.
I got a chance to make a start on the IVA fail items this weekend and hopefully item 1 is now sorted.
I even got a start on the repeaters. Will post a pic of them when finished.
Cheers
Paul G
Description
Description
Lovely work Paul.
David Jenkins - 22/2/15 at 09:00 PM
Lovely work Paul, as usual!
Just a thought - have you put a little drain at the bottom of that box?
907 - 22/2/15 at 10:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Lovely work Paul, as usual!
Just a thought - have you put a little drain at the bottom of that box?
My metalwork is so skew wiff and out of true that there's no way that bottom edge is going to seal.
Cheers
Paul G
907 - 23/2/15 at 11:19 AM
Hi All.
The LED strip repeaters are now fitted.
The long wire run discouraged me from fitting them to the front mudguards, plus I desperately need to avoid drilling
holes that may become redundant at a later date.
Instead of the Mitsy windscreen mount triangle location why not just block off and mount a little higher, so that's what I've done.
I hate them with a passion, but if this is what it takes to pass then I'll just put up with them. (for a while)
No aluminium has been harmed in any way in the fitting of this item.
If anyone says they look nice I'll follow them home and shat in their slippers. 
Paul G
Description
Temporary repeater location
joneh - 23/2/15 at 11:33 AM
Arghh my eyes!
ctwv50 - 23/2/15 at 02:59 PM
Don't you just love ruining your car for the IVA man.
[Edited on 23/2/15 by ctwv50]
David Jenkins - 23/2/15 at 04:45 PM
Paul,
How are you going to fix the wire, so it doesn't flap around and get caught by something?
907 - 23/2/15 at 05:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Paul,
How are you going to fix the wire, so it doesn't flap around and get caught by something?
Hi David,
The wire runs down the inside of heat shrink tube, which is held to the ally by 5mm wide 3M mounting tape.
The IVA manual says, " mounting tape is not deemed a permanent fix, but may be used if supplied by the
manufacturer of the light unit."
It came in with the light so I've used it.
If it lasts till the journey home then "jobs a good un," although its just my luck it will stick like snot on the end of your finger.
Cheers
Paul G
David Jenkins - 24/2/15 at 10:40 AM
Sounds plausible - it's just that if it looks temporary then the tester may think you're extracting the urine. I know I maybe sounding a
bit negative, but I want you to pass next time you go!
Regarding the double-sided tape - I reckon the rule about using it relates to fixing the light unit, not the wire (but I may well be wrong). As for
shifting the glue, I find that "Sticky Stuff Remover" is excellent in shifting most tape glues! Failing that acetone, meths, brake cleaner
or panel wipe have always been good fall-backs for me.
[Edited on 24/2/15 by David Jenkins]
DW100 - 24/2/15 at 10:51 AM
Could you tuck the wire behind the windscreen support? So it looks less stuck on?
David Jenkins - 24/2/15 at 11:33 AM
I was thinking about some form of capping - had a quick look around the web pages of various suppliers, but didn't find anything obvious.
907 - 25/2/15 at 07:04 AM
I could drill an 11mm hole in the windscreen support, fit a grommet, and pass the wire through and down
the inside edge against the screen, then drill another 11mm through the scuttle.
However, I'm trying to avoid doing anything that can't be restored to how it needs to be to pass future MOT's,
if you get my drift.
It's for similar reasons that I don't like the repeaters fitted to the front cycle wings.
That to me doesn't seem a good place to fit them as they then shine in the drivers eyes, which is exactly why
production cars (Honda/Merc/VAG and others) that fit them in the mirrors face them forwards.
You certainly can't see 50% of the lit area from 5% out from the rear on the Octavia parked next door.
Cheers
Paul G
CosKev3 - 25/2/15 at 08:12 AM
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
907 - 25/2/15 at 08:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
He dropped a line down from the repeater. Chalk mark.
He laid his extended tape measure on the floor level with the car side and out past the back of the car.
( this was inside the rear tyre )
He had previously worked out ( by trig ) what 5deg was at the end of his tape so measured out out with another tape
and put a cross on the floor with his chalk.
He measured the height of my repeater ( 600mm ) and went back to the cross, got down on hands & knees,
and with his eyes at 600mm above the floor looked at my repeater.
The view was just blocked by the edge of my rear arch.
( It's worth pointing out that from this position your staring at the rear indicator on the rear arch. )
My theory is that the windscreen supports are 900mm high so his sight line will now be above the wheel arch.
The distance back doesn't make a difference as 5deg is 5deg at any distance.
Hope my rambles are understandable.
Paul G
Edit to add pic
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
David Jenkins - 25/2/15 at 09:09 AM
I was musing over this last night - probably too late now to anything different - but I was wondering about a little stalk up and out from the
existing triangle where the old indicator was (and where the future indicator will be! ). Tubular stalk, wires up the middle, some appropriate
light fitting at the end. Easy to fit through the existing hole, and easy to remove later.
Apart from that flight of fancy, I was wondering if a bit of ali capping would cover the wire and make it look 'permanent', e.g. in bad
ASCII art __|--|__ stuck on with double-sided tape. The tape I've got (made for fixing trim to car bodies) is amazingly tough stuff, but can be
removed without damage - you're welcome to a length of it, if you need it. Either this, or a bit of narrow D-profile trim that would take the
wires inside.
ctwv50 - 25/2/15 at 09:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
He dropped a line down from the repeater. Chalk mark.
He laid his extended tape measure on the floor level with the car side and out past the back of the car.
( this was inside the rear tyre )
He had previously worked out ( by trig ) what 5deg was at the end of his tape so measured out out with another tape
and put a cross on the floor with his chalk.
He measured the height of my repeater ( 600mm ) and went back to the cross, got down on hands & knees,
and with his eyes at 600mm above the floor looked at my repeater.
The view was just blocked by the edge of my rear arch.
( It's worth pointing out that from this position your staring at the rear indicator on the rear arch. )
My theory is that the windscreen supports are 900mm high so his sight line will now be above the wheel arch.
The distance back doesn't make a difference as 5deg is 5deg at any distance.
Hope my rambles are understandable.
Paul G
Edit to add pic
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
Interesting I wondered how they measured this.
steve m - 25/2/15 at 09:41 AM
Do indicator lights have to be e marked like the headlights and rears?
as I doubt the led's are
Personly I would of put a light in the mirrors
steve
40inches - 25/2/15 at 09:48 AM
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
ctwv50 - 25/2/15 at 09:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Do indicator lights have to be e marked like the headlights and rears?
as I doubt the led's are
Personly I would of put a light in the mirrors
steve
As long as they are radiused correctly emit an amber light and are bright enough then they "should" be fine. "E" markings
"should" mean that they meet these criterial. The flexible ones the OP and I have fitted are "E" marked.
40inches - 25/2/15 at 09:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Do indicator lights have to be e marked like the headlights and rears?
as I doubt the led's are
Personly I would of put a light in the mirrors
steve
The only light that has to be e-marked is the rear fog lamp, all the others have to be of an "equivalent brightness" to e-marked units.
907 - 25/2/15 at 10:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I was musing over this last night - probably too late now to anything different - but I was wondering about a little stalk up and out from the
existing triangle where the old indicator was (and where the future indicator will be! ). Tubular stalk, wires up the middle, some appropriate
light fitting at the end. Easy to fit through the existing hole, and easy to remove later.
Apart from that flight of fancy, I was wondering if a bit of ali capping would cover the wire and make it look 'permanent', e.g. in bad
ASCII art __|--|__ stuck on with double-sided tape. The tape I've got (made for fixing trim to car bodies) is amazingly tough stuff, but can be
removed without damage - you're welcome to a length of it, if you need it. Either this, or a bit of narrow D-profile trim that would take the
wires inside.
Yup.
I'll go with any of that.
The stalk would be easy to make, just need a round light.
I saw somewhere a light that you pushed a rubber bit in a hole then the light into the rubber. About 20/25mm.
It must not shine back into the drivers eyes.
Your on a mission. I've a handrail to weld round the top of a castle.
Paul G
907 - 25/2/15 at 10:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
That would fail as on my car it's more than 2600mm from the front of the car. see previous post
Cheers anyway
Paul G
907 - 25/2/15 at 10:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Do indicator lights have to be e marked like the headlights and rears?
as I doubt the led's are
Personly I would of put a light in the mirrors
steve
They are marked E11, even marked on the packet.
Cracking idea if mirrors have a thick outward facing edge.
Sadly mine have a large area facing forwards but only a thin edge facing out.
Cheers
Paul G
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
40inches - 25/2/15 at 10:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
That would fail as on my car it's more than 2600mm from the front of the car. see previous post
Cheers anyway
Paul G
Is the MK shorter than a Locost? The photo is pre IVA and it passed on measurements.
CosKev3 - 25/2/15 at 01:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
He dropped a line down from the repeater. Chalk mark.
He laid his extended tape measure on the floor level with the car side and out past the back of the car.
( this was inside the rear tyre )
He had previously worked out ( by trig ) what 5deg was at the end of his tape so measured out out with another tape
and put a cross on the floor with his chalk.
He measured the height of my repeater ( 600mm ) and went back to the cross, got down on hands & knees,
and with his eyes at 600mm above the floor looked at my repeater.
The view was just blocked by the edge of my rear arch.
( It's worth pointing out that from this position your staring at the rear indicator on the rear arch. )
My theory is that the windscreen supports are 900mm high so his sight line will now be above the wheel arch.
The distance back doesn't make a difference as 5deg is 5deg at any distance.
Hope my rambles are understandable.
Paul G
Edit to add pic
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
5 degrees is 5 degress yeah, but if your rear arch gets in the way the distance they stand away makes a difference.
Some people on here have said testers go to ground level, so if they did that say a foot from your rear arch you wouldn't be able to see your
side repeaters at 5 degrees would you?
907 - 25/2/15 at 05:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
That would fail as on my car it's more than 2600mm from the front of the car. see previous post
Cheers anyway
Paul G
Is the MK shorter than a Locost? The photo is pre IVA and it passed on measurements.
I don't know where 2600mm would come to on an MK.
My chassis is the same length as a Locost but my pointy nose could be longer as it's a bit of a one off.
Cheers
Paul G
repeaters to be within 2600mm
CosKev3 - 25/2/15 at 10:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
That would fail as on my car it's more than 2600mm from the front of the car. see previous post
Cheers anyway
Paul G
Is the MK shorter than a Locost? The photo is pre IVA and it passed on measurements.
I don't know where 2600mm would come to on an MK.
My chassis is the same length as a Locost but my pointy nose could be longer as it's a bit of a one off.
Cheers
Paul G
repeaters to be within 2600mm
About half way on the rear arch on my m8's MK Indy R.
40inches - 25/2/15 at 10:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I fitted my side repeaters to the rear arch. I used the tiny button LED's without the rubber surround, and easy to wire from the rear indicators
Description
That would fail as on my car it's more than 2600mm from the front of the car. see previous post
Cheers anyway
Paul G
Is the MK shorter than a Locost? The photo is pre IVA and it passed on measurements.
I don't know where 2600mm would come to on an MK.
My chassis is the same length as a Locost but my pointy nose could be longer as it's a bit of a one off.
Cheers
Paul G
repeaters to be within 2600mm
Your's looks to be a lot longer on the nosecone. Look at the position of the lower wishbone on my MK compared to yours!
Description
The Black Flash - 25/2/15 at 10:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
He dropped a line down from the repeater. Chalk mark.
He laid his extended tape measure on the floor level with the car side and out past the back of the car.
( this was inside the rear tyre )
He had previously worked out ( by trig ) what 5deg was at the end of his tape so measured out out with another tape
and put a cross on the floor with his chalk.
He measured the height of my repeater ( 600mm ) and went back to the cross, got down on hands & knees,
and with his eyes at 600mm above the floor looked at my repeater.
The view was just blocked by the edge of my rear arch.
( It's worth pointing out that from this position your staring at the rear indicator on the rear arch. )
My theory is that the windscreen supports are 900mm high so his sight line will now be above the wheel arch.
The distance back doesn't make a difference as 5deg is 5deg at any distance.
Hope my rambles are understandable.
Paul G
Edit to add pic
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
5 degrees is 5 degress yeah, but if your rear arch gets in the way the distance they stand away makes a difference.
Some people on here have said testers go to ground level, so if they did that say a foot from your rear arch you wouldn't be able to see your
side repeaters at 5 degrees would you?
There's a vertical angle as well. Depending on the height of the light, if it's over 750mm then it needs to be visible 15 degrees below
horizontal, otherwise, 5 degrees below. That will determine where he takes his sight line from.
Should be able to test it fairly easy in the garage.
The Black Flash - 25/2/15 at 10:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 907
It's for similar reasons that I don't like the repeaters fitted to the front cycle wings.
That to me doesn't seem a good place to fit them as they then shine in the drivers eyes, which is exactly why
production cars (Honda/Merc/VAG and others) that fit them in the mirrors face them forwards.
You certainly can't see 50% of the lit area from 5% out from the rear on the Octavia parked next door.
Cheers
Paul G
I do wonder why mainstream cars seem to have different rules, but they definately do seem different for side repeaters.
Just as an FYI for anyone who's interested, the repeaters on the rear of the cycle wings really are no problem at all. It's below and off
to the right of your sight and you really don't notice them.
CosKev3 - 26/2/15 at 09:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Black Flash
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 907
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
How far back do they stand from car when checking the 5 degrees viewing angle to side repeater?
He dropped a line down from the repeater. Chalk mark.
He laid his extended tape measure on the floor level with the car side and out past the back of the car.
( this was inside the rear tyre )
He had previously worked out ( by trig ) what 5deg was at the end of his tape so measured out out with another tape
and put a cross on the floor with his chalk.
He measured the height of my repeater ( 600mm ) and went back to the cross, got down on hands & knees,
and with his eyes at 600mm above the floor looked at my repeater.
The view was just blocked by the edge of my rear arch.
( It's worth pointing out that from this position your staring at the rear indicator on the rear arch. )
My theory is that the windscreen supports are 900mm high so his sight line will now be above the wheel arch.
The distance back doesn't make a difference as 5deg is 5deg at any distance.
Hope my rambles are understandable.
Paul G
Edit to add pic
[Edited on 25/2/15 by 907]
5 degrees is 5 degress yeah, but if your rear arch gets in the way the distance they stand away makes a difference.
Some people on here have said testers go to ground level, so if they did that say a foot from your rear arch you wouldn't be able to see your
side repeaters at 5 degrees would you?
There's a vertical angle as well. Depending on the height of the light, if it's over 750mm then it needs to be visible 15 degrees below
horizontal, otherwise, 5 degrees below. That will determine where he takes his sight line from.
Should be able to test it fairly easy in the garage.
Cheers. Just looked at manual to see how they determined height.
So the line in the pic above in blue needs to be running down on a 15degree angle rather than straight.
DW100 - 26/2/15 at 10:34 AM
quote:
I could drill an 11mm hole in the windscreen support, fit a grommet, and pass the wire through and down
the inside edge against the screen, then drill another 11mm through the scuttle.
However, I'm trying to avoid doing anything that can't be restored to how it needs to be to pass future MOT's,
if you get my drift.
Was just thinking you could space temporarily the screen supports out with some washers and then run the wire round the front and down between the
windscreen and support and back through the hole in the scuttle.
907 - 26/2/15 at 10:49 AM
It needs to be visible within an arc.
For high mounted lights (above 750mm) it's the blue line;
from 15 deg above (looking down) to 15 deg below (looking up)
For low mounts (red sight line) then its still the same 15 deg looking down, but only 5 deg if you look up at the light.
I've just been out to pick up some metal for a work job and I'm finding that every car I pass coming towards me
that has repeaters in its mirrors I'm calling the driver names under my breath.
I passed a parked one that had it's mirrors folded in and you could see them from all angles.
Paul G
David Jenkins - 26/2/15 at 03:20 PM
Ah yes - the old game of "spot the bits of factory-made cars that wouldn't pass IVA in a million years!"
Or did you mean "I wonder if I can fit a pair of those mirrors on my car?"
[Edited on 26/2/15 by David Jenkins]
907 - 26/2/15 at 04:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Ah yes - the old game of "spot the bits of factory-made cars that wouldn't pass IVA in a million years!"
Or did you mean "I wonder if I can fit a pair of those mirrors on my car?"
[Edited on 26/2/15 by David Jenkins]
I've already done the former. Mitsubishi Colt triangular repeaters that fit perfectly in a Seven windscreen frame.
Look where that's 'kin got me.
As for production car mirrors by the time they are heated, electrically movable, repeater lights and fold in to park,
they cost about the same as a two bed semi.
Paul G
p.s.
Found some round 27mm trailer marker lights for your stalk idea. Delivery Monday.
907 - 27/2/15 at 05:41 PM
The trailer marker lights arrived today so I've managed to get one side fitted.
Needs a blob ( I can do blobs ) of paint to cover the Araldite fillets but otherwise done.
The wire comes out of the mirror case and runs underneath the mirror stem and doesn't really notice.
Wadderwethink ?
Paul G
Description
Description
David Jenkins - 27/2/15 at 05:58 PM
Should look very tidy once the 'blob of paint' is done! It also will look like you intend it to be permanent, which should please the
tester.
BTW: I now have a 3D printer, so if you give me the dimensions then maybe I can make a plastic surround to finish it off. No hard-and-fast promises
as 3D printing can be very frustrating, but I can't see that they would cause much difficulty. Alternatively, get a bit of black plastic from
Gaz and turn it on your lathe?
Mind you - it depends how permanent this arrangement is going to be!
[Edited on 27/2/15 by David Jenkins]
907 - 27/2/15 at 08:45 PM
Quote. Mind you - it depends how permanent this arrangement is going to be. End quote
Days…….Hours……. maybe only minutes.
The final purchase will be a pair of aluminium bullet racing mirrors. I'm that age.
They ( IMHO ) will be a fitting addition and will match perfectly.
Unfortunately the repeaters, along with the plastic mirrors, will also have to take their chance on eBay
so I'll just have to make do with the Mitsy ones. Shame.
Cheers
Paul G
ctwv50 - 18/3/15 at 09:27 PM
Just to let peeps know I passed with my side repeaters in that location.
edit: I mean on the rear of the front cycle wings.
[Edited on 18/3/15 by ctwv50]
