Hi,

some days ago I stayed on holiday in Britain and came in contact with the locost scene for the first time. In a book shop I found this great book about how to buy an own sports car and I started thinking about doing that. Hours of searching the internet didn´t give me any informations about if it was legal to build an own car in Germany, or which laws have to be followed, how much an homologation would cost etc..
So important questions for me are:
1. Has anyone already done sth. like that?
2. What is to do in regard of the german TÜV who always criticises any modification even on normal cars?
3. Is it cheap or rather expensive to insure a self built car?
4. Does there exist any german literature dealing with this topic?

Thank you for answering,

Marco

i think the easiest way is to build it,get it SVA tested here,register it on british plates and import it into germany

Hi Marco

Have a look at these links....
Dax
VM77
Rush
Tiger

Some german/other companys with kits. If you don´t want to buy a kit, you can always ask them about the regulations for TüV approval.

Here in Sweden it´s legal to build your own car from scratch. But it´s not legal to import an ready-built kit-car from any other country, even if it´s approved by SVA or TüV.

Viel gluck und lass uns wissen wie es lauft,Marco.
Ian
Miene frau ist Deutsche.

Today I've been at the TÜV, the german SVA:
The oficer told me four things about developing and building cars in germany:
1. In theory there is the possibility of building a locost and to register it but in the sense of economic behaviour it is not recomended in any way.
2. The first test that must be passed is a "vibration benchmark"(sorry, but I don' t know how to call better it in english).
So you have to bring a prototype of the frame or the frame itself to a TÜV-station, where it is put on a machine. This machine then gives various vibration shocks on the frame, to see the longterm impact of this kind of load on to the construction. It shall probably simulate the conditions the which car will meet on the road. The costs of this test is only affordable if you plan to build many cars of the exactly same type, that means 10, 20 or even more.
3. You have to do a complete break test, that means that a TÜV-Officer will make several attempts to slow the car down from all possible speeds, with various conditions of load of the car. All this in order to see that a brake system that works properly on normal cars will do so on a car that doesn't weigh even half as much, as the original car for which it was designed - or simply to make MONEY. Costs for this: 2300 Euro;
4. For the combination of the engine and the gearbox, built in a car that has a much smaller weight, than the one for which it was designed, you have to make the BIG exhaust test. So here the exhaust values are exactly checked over a great range of velocities, gears, load conditions and so on.
The little fee for this is about 1700 Euro;
So in the end I had to learn, that in this crazy, burocratic and overregulated country it is impossible to build an own car if you haven't money to burn. And seen from the point of the time you need to do all these tests, its probably even better to really burn the money!

I want to apologise for my probably very bad english, thank you for your help,

Marco

Here the german translation for those who want to read this in german:
Es gibt vier Feststellungen zu diesem Thema:
1. Prinzipiell ist der Selbstbau eines Autos in Deutschland möglich, durch die hohen Kosten der Einzelzulassung aber nicht wirtschaftlich sinnvoll.
2. Der erste Test für einen selbstgeschweißten Rahmen ist eine Dauerfestigkeitsprüfung auf enem Schwingungsprüfstand. Der Rahmen selbst oder ein Prototyp wird zum TÜV gebracht und dort von einer Maschine durchgerüttelt, um die Dauerfestigkeit des Rahmens gegen Vibrationen zu überprüfen und um das Verhalten des Rahmens im Alltagsvekehr zu simulieren. Die Kosten dafür liegen so hoch, dass sich dieser Test erst ab Stückzahlen von 10 bis 20 Stück interessant wird.
3. Es muss ein Bremsgutachten erstellt werden, nicht zu verwechseln mit einem einfachen Bremstest. Dabe wird der Wagen von einem Tüv-Prüfer mehrfach mit verschiedenen Beladungszuständen von verschiedenen Geschwindigkeiten auf null heruntergebremst, um zu überprüfen, ob die Bremse,die in einem Serienfahrzeug klaglos ihre Dienste versieht, dies auch in einem halb so schweren Sportwagen noch schafft. Die Kosten dafür belaufen sich auf weitere 2300 Euro.
4. Es wird ein Abgasgutachten, nicht zu verwechseln mit einer normalen Abgasuntersuchung durchgeführt. Die Abgaswerte der verwendeten Motor-Getriebekombination werden bei verschiedenen Lasten und Drehzahlen gemessen, um ein neues Abgasgutachten für diesen Motor mit diesem Getriebe bei dieser Fahrzeugmasse zu erstellen. Preis: 1700 Euro
Angesichts der Höhe der Kosten für den Selbstbau eines Autos hat es wohl wirklich keinen Sinn dies in Deutschland zu versuchen.

Wahnsinnig, nicht wahr.


yours, Pete.

[Edited on 20/1/04 by Peteff]

[Edited on 20/1/04 by Peteff]

Yes, you're really lucky in Great Britain!
I begin to ask myself for what reason I study mechanical engineering

Bye, Marco

What about looking over the border to http://www.donkervoort.nl
They may be able to help you.

Ian

Hi Marco,

I live in Belgium, and it is even worse over here. We don't have the possibility from the TUV.

I beleave that you have 2 possibillity's:

A/ buy a kit from a company in Germany

B/ Built one yourself, get it SVA'd and registered, and then import it in Germany

I'm building an Avon at the moment and will go the SVA route, but if I have to do it again, I would have a good look at the German kits.They look quit expensive, but if you buy something in the UK ( great products ! and a lot of possibility's in the UK)you always have to consider the freight cost are high, and my experiance is that not every company is willing to schip to the mainland, even if you pay in advance.

Forget about Donkervoort, great car, but Donkervoort is a car manufacturer, and don't want to help or sell any parts to the kitcar people.

So in the end a kit from a German company will be less expansive.

Take a look at the VM starter pack, it is not that expensive at all. just an example !!

This is based on my experiance and is only my personnal opinion.

Gunther

imho bringing the car to britain, sva it there and re import it won't solve the problem of the exhaust certificate that has to be done, what also means that the engine has to fulfill todays standards of Euro 3.
And there should still be the certification of the brake system.
last but not least the costs of bringing a car to britain on a trailer and back are so high (I'm from Bavaria in the south) that I think it has no sense to start an adventure like this.

quote:

---

Originally posted by syncro

last but not least the costs of bringing a car to britain on a trailer and back are so high (I'm from Bavaria in the south) that I think it has no sense to start an adventure like this.

---

Marco,

Have a look at the range of sevens from German based company RCB7, I reckon their variation on the Lotus 7 design looks great. Or, depending on how wealthy you are how about the Weismann GT from http://www.weismann-auto-sport.de




[Edited on 22/1/2004 by paulbeyer]

Suggest you contact:
Oracle Cars
Zand 32
9160 Lokeren
België

Tel. (+32) 09/349 16 55
Fax.(+32) 09/349 16 55

info@oracle-cars.be
Wouters@oracle-cars.be
http://www.oracle-cars.be/products/index.html

Ask for Eric - they are agents for a range of kit cars and sell throughout Europe
Regards
Steve @ sVc