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Darren (GTS)

thunderace - 17/1/07 at 11:18 PM

I PAID FOR STUFF AT XMASS AND ONLY GET THIS AUTOMATED EMAIL..

Hi,

Thanks for contacting GTS.

As of mid-day December 19th 2006, i will be away on business in Bahrain. I will
return on Christmas Eve. We are trying our best to send out all our current
orders prior to the Christmas break. If you need to contact GTS then please call
the workshop on 01474 707071.

Orders placed this week, are unlikely to be delivered now until the first week
Jan '07.

Kind regards,

Darren George
GTS Tuning

IS HE OFF SICK OR SOMETHING....

stevec - 17/1/07 at 11:31 PM

Cue Mark,

RazMan - 18/1/07 at 12:07 AM

Oooh where's me popcorn !

Mr G - 18/1/07 at 12:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
Oooh where's me popcorn !

You can share mine, I always keep some handy for times like this...

graememk - 18/1/07 at 12:53 AM

wheres the man with the bat phone when you need him.

mookaloid - 18/1/07 at 12:56 AM

Have you tried calling the workshop on 01474 707071?

locoboy - 18/1/07 at 07:18 AM

MArk has withdrawn his offer of help as he feels he gets nothing but poo on here so he is only willing to give advice on the forum.

I too am trying to get stuff from GTS see HERE

I have contacted Darren since my thread was posted but im still none the wiser about the whereabouts of my goods.

Agriv8 - 18/1/07 at 08:02 AM

I am sure someone said he was at Autosport. there was the GTS on the Rally design stand so I suspect he was not too far away.

have you tried posting on the GTS forum ?

Regards

Agriv8

Hellfire - 18/1/07 at 08:31 AM

To be honest - as a long standing member of this forum, I have never seen so many negative postings about a supplier than GTS.

I'm constantly surprised that people continue to give GTS their money and get nothing in return apart from a a non answered call; (business and mobile) a mass of unanswered emails and then it ends up on this forum - "Darren where are you?".

Stop buying from the company/man and your winging will cease.

Sorry Darren - as we are one of your satisfied customers, but to be honest m8, your service is abhorent...

Steve

<Runs for cover>

garage19 - 18/1/07 at 08:33 AM

I can confirm the illusive Darren was at the Autosport show on Friday (trade day).

I wish the GTS customers the best luck in the world. After wrong defective parts were sent it took me 3 months to get my money back.

flak monkey - 18/1/07 at 09:01 AM

Some parts are a minimum of 28days lead time, other stock parts are usually delivered within a couple of weeks.

If you did order them at xmas its a bit early to be shouting about them already.

Phone him on his mobile or workshop phone in the afternoon and you might get through. I dont think some people realise how long it takes to answer 100s of emails and phone calls everyday. If every one was answered then nothing productive would get done. I am not saying this is an excuse, but its true. And the solution is obviously employ someone to deal with customer communication, but this substantially increases overhead. Swings and roundabouts.

Maybe I am just lucky, but then I dont go around shouting my head off about how bad GTS is, when I have no reason to.

Rgds,
David

Syd Bridge - 18/1/07 at 09:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
...... I dont think some people realise how long it takes to answer 100s of emails and phone calls everyday. If every one was answered then nothing productive would get done. ............
David

I've been through this myself.

The trick is called 'an employee'. People who you delegate work and a level of responsibility to.

Darren may need to learn the benefits of well trained employees.

Cheers,
Syd.

jamesg20 - 18/1/07 at 09:46 AM

If you have paid and parts don't arrive, and the company is non contactable, issue a winding up order, that should get things moving.

I don't know why people seem to tolerate service from suppliers in a niche market that would have had them in court months ago in any other line of business. Too many times in this market i read similar stories, and also the paying of goods upfront, long wait.... company goes pop. I think sometimes purchases in this market are made with the heart rather than the head, but people should take every precaution (if not more) in this market as they would buying any other product.

This is not aimed at GTS, I don't know them and have no dealing with them, it's general advice for anyone in the hope that it can save someone loosing out on chunks of money through situations which are easily avoidable - something we seem to be reading more about in this market day by day.

oily85 - 18/1/07 at 11:06 AM

I've just spoken to Darren, he said he's in the middle of packing quite a few orders, mine included.
I paid for mine on October 31st, but when I rang last week, they said they'd had some problems with suppliers for suspension parts, which had put them back a few weeks.

locoboy - 18/1/07 at 11:28 AM

I just spoke to Darren 11.25am and it seems like business post has lost my rear panel and a new one was gelled up as we spoke.

So all being well i should see it in a few days.

westf27 - 18/1/07 at 11:36 AM

what does this company offer, that most others do not,maybe thats why people continue to order from them.I couldnt work like that,almost frightened to pick up the phone

zxrlocost - 18/1/07 at 12:29 PM

business post has lost it hehe!!!

come on everyone thats the oldest one is the book

and ordered on 31st october ?

but hes the one in a deal with rally design and a ever growing catalogue

oily85 - 18/1/07 at 12:34 PM

To be honest, I'm not too bothered about how long it's taken, it's not really holding my build up enormously, I've got other things to get on with, and I have a relative in the kit car business, so I know how orders can get on top of you.

AdamR - 18/1/07 at 12:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by westf27
what does this company offer, that most others do not...

Quite a lot if you're building a +4: de-dion and other suspension bits, but most importantly the W7DE bodywork.

IMO if GTS had more competition in this area Darren would be forced to sort out the customer service issues.

For the record, I've had some stuff from GTS and was not disappointed. I did adjust my expectations in line with what I'd read on here though... i.e. good quality stuff but be prepared to wait for it and chase up as necessary.

[Edited on 18/1/07 by AdamR]

mike4444244 - 18/1/07 at 03:21 PM

I had to take him to court to get a refund, it took 8 months to sort out in the end, it substantially held up my build, all he had to do was be honest and tell me what parts he couldn't get hold of and refund the cost of them, instead he constantly fobbed me off with endless excuses. A solicitors letter got the parts and a refund of the missing ones within a week!
Mike

MattCraneCustoms - 18/1/07 at 05:20 PM

so if I buy stuff like the poly bush kit to fit GTS wishbones and some other stuff from rally design, can they not ensure it arrives on time? Surely they'd have to ensure a reasonable delivery date? I have a few bits to buy, as I managed to get some GTS bones, but I'll do my best to avoid going to them direct, just due to what I've heard on here.
Regards
Matt

TimC - 18/1/07 at 05:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MattCraneCustoms
I wish my chassis tubes were emo's, so they'd cut themselves

Quality.

damien - 18/1/07 at 06:38 PM

the more a read about gts the more im put off.
im swinging towards mk alot more now

Micael - 18/1/07 at 06:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mike4444244
I had to take him to court to get a refund, it took 8 months to sort out in the end, it substantially held up my build, all he had to do was be honest and tell me what parts he couldn't get hold of and refund the cost of them, instead he constantly fobbed me off with endless excuses. A solicitors letter got the parts and a refund of the missing ones within a week!
Mike

I'm thinking of going this route myself as he still owe me 1Ł

Kelvin - 19/1/07 at 11:31 AM

I've watched these threads with interest as I'm nearly at the stage of getting another kit build together and I do really like the look of the Lotus 11-esq.

I must make it clear that I haven't tried to contact GTS via phone, email etc, so I have no axe to grind, no parts outstanding, no money owed. I have spoken to them at Brands and they seemed like nice, chatty, knowledgeable people.

However, I just cannot feel comfortable about dealing with a company where a happy customer feels able to post this;

quote:

Some parts are a minimum of 28days lead time, other stock parts are usually delivered within a couple of weeks.

A stock item, to me, is an item that is on your shelves ready to send out, or at the very least available to you as a vendor on a next day basis. If I was to order a stock item I would expect it to be with me much much quicker than within a couple of weeks.

I understand lead times and I also understand supply & demand and the dangers of keeping excess stock on the shelves, but if you wish to stay in business you have to keep the customer fully informed of lead times and potential hold ups, especially when there is a wealth of choice available to customers. They are the people paying for the future expansion of your business and it's viability in the marketplace.

It seems to me that GTS, as has been mentioned else where, need to bite the bullet and employ someone, it probably only needs one person, maybe on a part time basis, to deal with the shipping out and admin issues. Even an automatic reply to customer emails saying we will deal with your request as soon as possible is a bonus over nothing at all.

Unfortunately, looking through these threads, I have to say I have been put off spending money with GTS, which is a shame, as as I mentioned earlier, they seemed like nice chatty people when I met them, but I cannot put my money and build in the trust of a company that does not seem to appreciate the massive potential and benefits beholden in good customer service. I can't believe I'm the only one to think twice and spend elsewhere.

[Edited on 19/1/07 by Kelvin]

procomp - 19/1/07 at 02:25 PM

Hi GTS are not the only people who do an ( 11 ) there is also WESTFIELD.

cheers matt

Kelvin - 19/1/07 at 02:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi GTS are not the only people who do an ( 11 ) there is also WESTFIELD.

cheers matt

Oh indeed, had a drive of their yellow demonstrator over Xmas. Their's is Midget based though......

[Edited on 19/1/07 by Kelvin]

procomp - 19/1/07 at 02:39 PM

Hi it is indeed.

But nothing to stop people changing certain parts that they dont like and creating there own version based on westfields verry good quatity kit.

[img]http://wwwlocostbuilders.co.uk [/img]

The pic above was one off the verry first that westfield originaly did and then modified for racing.

Cheers matt

Kelvin - 19/1/07 at 02:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi it is indeed.

But nothing to stop people changing certain parts that they dont like and creating there own version based on westfields verry good quatity kit.

The pic above was one off the verry first that westfield originaly did and then modified for racing.

Cheers matt

No argument there from me (going very off topic this now!) but I don't really want the hassle this time of going to the extremes of changing all the bits to suit another donor.

The GTS one appealed due to it effectively being a cloak of the Locost chassis.

Fizzie - 19/1/07 at 07:18 PM

Seems too be contageous

link

Fizzzzzzzz

jamesg20 - 19/1/07 at 07:55 PM

I'm stunned to be honest. This kind of bad press will sink a company in a competitive market pretty quickly.

zxrlocost - 19/1/07 at 08:34 PM

you couldnt be more wrong in the Kit car industry it gets you more business

TimC - 19/1/07 at 10:14 PM

A bit off topic, but an excellent example of good service.

I ordered parts from www.pegasusautoracing.com in Wisconsin USA on Wednesday night. They arrived TODAY. F***ing incredible.

stantheman - 19/1/07 at 11:27 PM

JBA falcon

Another satisfied customer,not.

Noodle - 19/1/07 at 11:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by stantheman
JBA falcon

Another satisfied customer,not.

Blinkety-flip!

Kelvin - 20/1/07 at 07:33 AM

Such a frustrating thing to see with a company that obviously has a product that people want and is willing to go into the market place to save other companies from folding but just isn't making the most of the opportunities that are available to it.

Simple customer service is lacking (from an external view) which if fixed could snowball into being a major player in the market with a big turnover and profit, not a perceived major player with potentially a cupboard full of winding up orders.

BKLOCO - 21/1/07 at 02:45 PM

Hello everyone.
I'm back.
WITH AVENGENCE.
So let me get the gist of this thread right....
You want Darren to employ more people?
OK I'm sure he would happily do that...
However would YOU be happy to pay that persons salary in increased prices for the parts you buy?
I think not somehow.
You all seem to forget that EVERY kit car supplier is efectively a cottage industry. They ALL have things wrong with them to a greater or lesser extent.
That may be what is percieved by some to be poor customer relations, as with GTS, or badly fitting bodywork, as with MK, or any number of other things with other manufacturers. The fact is "you pays yer money and takes yer choice"
If you want a super slick organisation to deal with you shouldn't be building a kit car in the first place because you WILL be dissapointed.
Although I have NOT got as much experience as some on here regarding building cars I DO have quite a lot of life experience and quite honestly there are a lot of posters on this forum who maybe need to keep quiet until they can say the same.
I built a GTS Panther in less than 7 months, in my spare time. I had one or 2 delays yes but NOTHING that couldn't be sorted out with the supplier (who wasn't allways GTS) with a polite but firm phone call.
Might I suggest that some people need to learn some "people skills" before posting on here. Maybe then they could use this forum for what it was set up for.
To give help and advice on technical issues encountered in the building of kit/scratch built cars.....
NOT SLAGGING OF INDIVIDUALS OR MANUFACTURERS IN A VINDICTIVE IMMATURE WAY THAT DOES NOTHING FOR ANYONE. BUT SHOWS THE POSTER UP FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

"Brian has again left the room"

flak monkey - 21/1/07 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BKLOCO
Hello everyone.
I'm back.
WITH AVENGENCE.
So let me get the gist of this thread right....
You want Darren to employ more people?
OK I'm sure he would happily do that...
However would YOU be happy to pay that persons salary in increased prices for the parts you buy?
I think not somehow.
You all seem to forget that EVERY kit car supplier is efectively a cottage industry. They ALL have things wrong with them to a greater or lesser extent.
That may be what is percieved by some to be poor customer relations, as with GTS, or badly fitting bodywork, as with MK, or any number of other things with other manufacturers. The fact is "you pays yer money and takes yer choice"
If you want a super slick organisation to deal with you shouldn't be building a kit car in the first place because you WILL be dissapointed.
Although I have NOT got as much experience as some on here regarding building cars I DO have quite a lot of life experience and quite honestly there are a lot of posters on this forum who maybe need to keep quiet until they can say the same.
I built a GTS Panther in less than 7 months, in my spare time. I had one or 2 delays yes but NOTHING that couldn't be sorted out with the supplier (who wasn't allways GTS) with a polite but firm phone call.
Might I suggest that some people need to learn some "people skills" before posting on here. Maybe then they could use this forum for what it was set up for.
To give help and advice on technical issues encountered in the building of kit/scratch built cars.....
NOT SLAGGING OF INDIVIDUALS OR MANUFACTURERS IN A VINDICTIVE IMMATURE WAY THAT DOES NOTHING FOR ANYONE. BUT SHOWS THE POSTER UP FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

"Brian has again left the room"

Amen

JoelP - 21/1/07 at 03:00 PM

sorry lads, but employing staff is an essential part of growing a business. Darren is clearly at his limit, where supply is the limiting factor. If there is an excess of demand, and he feels inclinded to attemp to meet the demand, then he simply has to employ staff. If he doesnt want to, fair enough, his turnover will be limited by a lower productivity*. Im sure that in the long run the bad press will do no damage, because as people get put off he will be better able to meet the demands of those who stay.

By productivity i dont just mean his ability to produce items to sell, i mean it to include his ability to sell them and take orders.

[Edited on 21/1/07 by JoelP]

Kelvin - 21/1/07 at 04:12 PM

Quite right Joel.

As I said originally, I have no axe to grind with Darren or any of his companies, I am merely posting as someone who is looking to purchase another kit and has done research on this forum, which most people with internet access, I would imagine, would do.

Employing a member of staff to deal with admin/emails etc is merely one possibility, but what i will say is that in my experience those companies with good customer service records are more likely to get my business and return business. In today's culture of so much choice, there has to be something to 'sweeten the deal' if you like, and that isn't always the price.

Describing any company as 'just a cottage industry' is no excuse for poor customer service, it should be at the forefront of your thoughts when dealing with the people who are putting the money into keeping your business alive, no matter if it be a multinational or small one man band.

Unfortunately I think the damage has been done (whether rightly or wrongly), in the view of some readers of this forum at least, which means that this type of thread will now always be jumped on immediately by both sides.

Shame, as GTS have, from what I have seen, to be a very nice product that I would definitely consider purchasing, if I could gain confidence in the supplier. Unfortunately, I think that may be a hard thing to achieve.

Sorry, I must seem like a cracked customer service record, but it's something that really bugs me about business today.

[Edited on 21/1/07 by Kelvin]

Fat boy 1 - 21/1/07 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin
Quite right Joel.

As I said originally, I have no axe to grind with Darren

Then why Post, Have you ever puchased any thing from GTS ? because Darren has only done the best he can for Locost builders, he's got the right product at the right price.

And when he F---ks OFF because of all the aggro it will be GTS customers that suffer, not the people who are on the guy's back who haven't bought a thing of him. which is most of you as far as I can see.

[Edited on 21/1/07 by Kelvin]

Kelvin - 22/1/07 at 08:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Fat boy 1

quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin
Quite right Joel.

As I said originally, I have no axe to grind with Darren

Then why Post, Have you ever puchased any thing from GTS ? because Darren has only done the best he can for Locost builders, he's got the right product at the right price.

And when he F---ks OFF because of all the aggro it will be GTS customers that suffer, not the people who are on the guy's back who haven't bought a thing of him. which is most of you as far as I can see.

Okay, I'll try and explain in simple terms as you seem to have not bothered reading my posts.

You are quite correct, I haven't purchased anything from GTS, which is why, in my first post, I said;

quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin
I must make it clear that I haven't tried to contact GTS via phone, email etc, so I have no axe to grind, no parts outstanding, no money owed. I have spoken to them at Brands and they seemed like nice, chatty, knowledgeable people.

I am posting because I am a potential purchaser of a kit. As a potential purchaser of a kit I have done some research and have read the topics here in the GTS forum (I've been a member since 2002 or a couple of cars ago) and those available on Google. Those threads and search results, you have to admit, do not paint a good picture from the perspective of someone wishing to invest some of their hard earned into a hobby.

As I also said, GTS have what appears to be a very nice product, which I would definitely consider purchasing but for the aforementioned issues raised on this forum/searched via Google. I don't believe any of my posts have been inflammatory towards GTS or Darren personally, they have merely been personal views that could be applied to any business in any field where customer service is an important factor in business growth/customer satisfaction.

I fully agree with you, GTS have offered another choice in the already crowded Locost market and their prices are very tempting for which they should be applauded, but those prices mean nothing if there are issues with actually getting hold of the parts after payment has been received.

As a potential customer, I have decided not to buy a GTS after reading these threads and my own research, purely due to the customer service issue, not to do with the quality of products or manufacture. That is just me though, as it is an area of business I feel strongly about. There are just too many scare stories, whether they be true, half true or whatever, to make me feel comfortable.

As to your question of why post, well, this forum depends on posts and conversations to live, so if someone has a point or an opinion to make then I feel it is important that it is posted and can then be debated. I have an opinion, much like everyone else, and I was offering my perspective. I kept my posts general and made my position clear from post 1 in this thread, I'm not a GTS customer, I have no complaints with them, but due to the evidence available to me I would not be becoming a future customer and here's why and explained what I felt could make the experience better. I'm one person who is not going to put 3 - 4 thousand into GTS who has posted, how many are there who haven't posted?

flak monkey - 22/1/07 at 10:37 AM

If you have had no dealings with GTS then reserve your judgement. Fair enough some of the posts may put off some would be customers, but inflaming the situation doesnt make it any better.

Darren doesnt post on here anymore because of the aggro, and I cant blame him. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are quick to slag off a company, and loathe to leave positive comments. I know of many satisfied GTS customers both in the UK and abroad. unfortunately any thread in this section seems to deteriorate into an argument.

I set up a GTS forum on the owners club site, and Darren does regularly visit it. I would urge any GTS customers with technical issues to use that forum rather than this one. This is a joke and ultimately a waste of everybodies time.

Rgds,
David

Kelvin - 22/1/07 at 10:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
If you have had no dealings with GTS then reserve your judgement. Fair enough some of the posts may put off some would be customers, but inflaming the situation doesnt make it any better.

Darren doesnt post on here anymore because of the aggro, and I cant blame him. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are quick to slag off a company, and loathe to leave positive comments. I know of many satisfied GTS customers both in the UK and abroad. unfortunately any thread in this section seems to deteriorate into an argument.

I set up a GTS forum on the owners club site, and Darren does regularly visit it. I would urge any GTS customers with technical issues to use that forum rather than this one. This is a joke and ultimately a waste of everybodies time.

Rgds,
David

David,

Sorry, no, I will not reserve my judgement, or keep quiet as it's not what GTS owners want to hear, which is probably more the case.

I will say it again, I have no reason to doubt Darren or GTS, I am merely posting as a former potential customer and explaining the reasons for me not wishing to purchase from GTS. These are valid reasons open to serious debate. I admit, most of these threads degenerate into petty name calling, which in my view this thread hasn't, it has raised some valid points. They do not inflame any situation.

There is a distinct difference between myself and someone who is currently experiencing problems, whatever they may be, with GTS or infact any company they may be dealing with.

Everything I have posted has been generalities, which could quite easily pertain to any company in any industry. It just so happens that this topic is in the GTS forum.

I am trying to ascertain why and maybe understand the reasons for there being so many posts of a bad nature.

To my mind, Darren could do a lot worse than putting a post here, maybe 'stickied' (sic) at the top, explaining once and for all how to contact him, how to deal with any delays be they expected or not and finally put the problems to bed. It would show a willingness to make matters better and save Mark and yourself the hassle of being an intermediary.

I think you're right, there does need to be more postings of a positive nature as I firmly believe he has a good product, as evidenced by your very nice build.

[Edited on 22/1/07 by Kelvin]

BKLOCO - 22/1/07 at 11:28 AM

Kelvin
You flatter yourself.
Do you really think that real GTS owners give a flying fcuk about your opinionated views?
We've built GTS's and mostly have a good relationship with Darren and all the other guys down at the w-shop.
Stop wasting yours and everybody elses time and go build a car....

Kelvin - 22/1/07 at 11:41 AM

Ah, and the thread descends.

Maybe a few more positive posts from people such as yourself would have helped the situation in the first place.

Yep, I fully admit to being dogmatic in my views when it comes to spending hard earned on a hobby. You pays your money etc etc etc.

Micael - 22/1/07 at 03:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BKLOCO

Stop wasting yours and everybody elses time and go build a car....

Some are waiting for parts from GTS. And i suspect they will be hanging here utill they get them and can continue with their build.

Maby thats why there are not so many thread like this in MK, Luego, MAC- forums. People got their stuff and are building, instead of lurking here

MartinDB - 22/1/07 at 04:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BKLOCO
Kelvin
You flatter yourself.
Do you really think that real GTS owners give a flying fcuk about your opinionated views?
We've built GTS's and mostly have a good relationship with Darren and all the other guys down at the w-shop.
Stop wasting yours and everybody elses time and go build a car....

If GTS owners don't care about his posts, why are you getting so worked up?

Fat boy 1 - 23/1/07 at 12:11 AM

If GTS owners don't care about his posts, why are you getting so worked up?

The one thing We ain't doing is geting worked up, to many people to quick to call, and most who haven't purchased a thing from GTS, or never will because of post like these, Darren has only do good for us locost builder, as I said the right price for a very good product, my not be on time my be hard to get hold off but he's never not deliverd for us guys.