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GTS DeDion weight
Paul TigerB6 - 11/1/08 at 07:57 PM

Evening all

Does anyone know how heavy a DeDion unit is from GTS?? I am looking at saving some weight on my Tiger B6 build and as you will see from the attached picture, the Tiger "designed" DeDion unit is rather "agricultural" in its.. ahem.... design!!!

The Tiger unit is built to accept standard driveshafts so which version would i need of the 3 shown on the website?? I am getting custom driveshafts made up to suit the freelander diff so an exact fit isnt required but obviously want to keep the track right to suit the car. One of the GTS cars must use the standard driveshafts???


[img][/img]

TimC - 11/1/08 at 08:01 PM

[Janice off of Friends]OH MY GOD[/Janice off of Friends]

flak monkey - 11/1/08 at 08:02 PM

Good god thats a fugly axle

The GTS panther de dion axle takes standard half shafts.

The axle weighs next to nothing. Probably about 10-15kg. You will probably need to move the panhard rod mounting on your chassis, but thats hardly a big job.

David

Mr Whippy - 11/1/08 at 08:02 PM

weird

SALAD - 11/1/08 at 08:03 PM

I can weigh my axle tomorrow if needs be? Its a panther one.

Paul TigerB6 - 11/1/08 at 08:09 PM

I havent weighed the Tiger item yet but it feels at least as heavy as a Sierra LSD diff so possibly in the 25 - 30kg region!! The flat plates you can see around the apex and near the hubs are machined from 12mm steel plate!!! Not the greatest idea to go in a BEC.

Thanks for the super-quick answers guys (especially David).

I have linked here from the Tiger Owners Club site as there are a few people interested in converting their cars to DeDion from a Cortina live axle so hello to all you guys - and while you are here get yourselves registered on this site!!!

Cheers
Paul

Paul TigerB6 - 11/1/08 at 08:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SALAD
I can weigh my axle tomorrow if needs be? Its a panther one.


That would be fantastic if you could mate - thanks for that. Iguess there will only be small differences between the models due to the extra length of cross-tube so maybe an extra kg for the wide version. I'll try and weigh the Tiger one (which is off their "lightweight" R6 / B6) tomorrow as well.

SALAD - 11/1/08 at 08:20 PM

Mind your back when you lift it though won't you!

Benzine - 11/1/08 at 08:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
off of


lol

Paul TigerB6 - 11/1/08 at 08:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SALAD
Mind your back when you lift it though won't you!


Its ok - I have a 1 ton engine hoist in my garage!! It will be a good test to ensure it will take the Pinto / gearbox that I will be fitting for a SuperCat build i am doing at the moment

stevec - 11/1/08 at 08:29 PM

I think GTS do a 2 piece De Dion, CalvinX had one
Steve.

Mr Whippy - 11/1/08 at 08:49 PM

what the one that snapped?

TimC - 11/1/08 at 08:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
what the one that snapped?


No.

Sometimes the punch-line is better left unsaid.

onzarob - 11/1/08 at 08:58 PM

Looking at a picture off Davids' site (Fantastic site David ), I would say you need to change the orientation of the shock mounting on the GTS axel as well.





PS I think the scrap value of the old axel,may pay for the new one

locoR1 - 11/1/08 at 09:01 PM

And to think i nearly brought a tiger cat before i built mine! good god that is one ugly axle

The standard sierra back end used in he cat looks lighter than that

Dave....

Saucy Tenour - 11/1/08 at 09:25 PM

I just bought a panther when I went to collect my kit i asked about the broken axle and Darren said until recently it was a company called Aeon sports cars who did all GTS's fabrication and that they had admitted liability for the faulty part.

He showed me they now do fabrication in house it looked good to me so they might be worth a call if you need a axle.

flak monkey - 11/1/08 at 09:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Saucy Tenour
I just bought a panther when I went to collect my kit i asked about the broken axle and Darren said until recently it was a company called Aeon sports cars who did all GTS's fabrication and that they had admitted liability for the faulty part.

He showed me they now do fabrication in house it looked good to me so they might be worth a call if you need a axle.


You are quite right. Aeon did make the faulty axle and its all be sorted out and won't happen again

This is probably a better pic of it fitted:



I believe the shock bracket is now better poistioned as well so it doesnt overhang the trailing arm brackets as much as it does on my axle. Not that I have had any problems with mine yet.

Shock orientation is irrelevant as you can just turn the shock body around

David

onzarob - 11/1/08 at 09:50 PM

quote:


Shock orientation is irrelevant as you can just turn the shock body around

David


Won't it bind up unless its directly inline?

flak monkey - 11/1/08 at 10:00 PM

No, they will work just the same.

More importantly his rear shocks are on upside down!

COREdevelopments - 11/1/08 at 10:31 PM

well spotted david. i cant get over that back axle. who the bleep designed that!!!

stevec - 11/1/08 at 10:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
No, they will work just the same.

More importantly his rear shocks are on upside down!


Thats interesting David, According to one of this months Kit Car mags. Westfield fit their shocks upsidedown as standard to improve unsprung weight.
What do people think of that theory?
Steve.

[Edited on 11/1/08 by stevec]

onzarob - 11/1/08 at 11:41 PM

quote:
[
Shock orientation is irrelevant as you can just turn the shock body around

David


Tell me I'm wrong, but if the shock mounts are not in-line, IE the bolts parallel to each other. and the shock is not at 90 degrees to the Axle and top mount ,its going to bind up as there is a twisting action applied to it.

I think the mount will need to be rotated on the chassis by 90 degrees to mount the gts Axle properly.

PS mounting the shock upside down is OK to reduce unsprung weight, Just check manufacturer specs first

flak monkey - 12/1/08 at 07:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stevec
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
No, they will work just the same.

More importantly his rear shocks are on upside down!


Thats interesting David, According to one of this months Kit Car mags. Westfield fit their shocks upsidedown as standard to improve unsprung weight.
What do people think of that theory?
Steve.

[Edited on 11/1/08 by stevec]


It depends on what sort of shock they are. Oil filled dampers with adjusters have to be fitted in the correct orientation otherwise air gets trapped in the asjuster. As far as I remember normal oil filled shocks with no adjuster also work best when mounted conventionally, again because of the way the air bubbles in the oil move through the various valves inside the shock.

I know when we were looking at shocks for our formula student car we had to have single tube gas dampers so we could mount them on their side. Cheap they were not! (Nitron shocks, about £180 each).

David

flak monkey - 12/1/08 at 07:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by onzarob
Tell me I'm wrong, but if the shock mounts are not in-line, IE the bolts parallel to each other. and the shock is not at 90 degrees to the Axle and top mount ,its going to bind up as there is a twisting action applied to it.

I think the mount will need to be rotated on the chassis by 90 degrees to mount the gts Axle properly.



You arent wrong! My brain had evidently failed last night!

onzarob - 12/1/08 at 09:37 AM

quote:


You arent wrong! My brain had evidently failed last night!


Few!!! I was messing with a pencil and bit of paper trying to work out were my brain had gone wrong

SALAD - 12/1/08 at 11:32 AM

Paul, just weighed my Panther axle..... 9.6Kg (powdercoated and bubblewrapped!)

Paul TigerB6 - 12/1/08 at 02:13 PM

Thanks for ^^^ that. I have just weighed my Tiger DeDion girder and its very suprisingly a svelte 15.6kg only!! Still, a 6kg weight saving is quite a chunk, especially as it is unsprung mass so i can see a conversion being pretty much a certainty.

While we are at it could someone please take some measurements to enable me to see if its a straight swap. The measurements I have that seem the important ones are:-

overall width - 1360mm
trailing arm brackets - 945mm (measured from the inside face of the bracket each side)
shock absorber bracket - 945mm (measured as above)

Cheers
Paul