Holy cr** what he is suggesting is totally illegal.
What is the guy thinking putting the just buy a chassis plate line.
[Edited on 6/12/15 by jossey]
[Edited on 6/12/15 by jossey]
Just spotted this on ebay 391336335260
seller quite blatant about ringing this kit by using an old kit cars ID/VIN on this car in the add.
quote:
Last of all is the good news i have in my name the V5 for a Tripos sports this was a kitcar produced in the early 80s it was a space frame chassised fibreglass bodied kit and on the V5 its down as 1600 cc engine its an age related number plate not Q plated and is a perfect match for the car you will just need to make a chassis plate and change the engine number on the V5.
Lotus/Westfield 11 replica 1600cc twincam 5 speed box great project V5 availible
Holy cr** what he is suggesting is totally illegal.
What is the guy thinking putting the just buy a chassis plate line.
[Edited on 6/12/15 by jossey]
[Edited on 6/12/15 by jossey]
Legalities aside (and as a buyer knowing the right way of going about things, I'm sure the project could be bought and tell him to keep the v5), it could be a nice project if finished well.
To be fair, registering a reasonably accurate Eleven replica 'legitimately' is next to impossible, and the advert is barely less dishonest than Westfield's own build manual recommendations for getting one through IVA (which include, from memory, submitting the car without doors or screen fitted, and with 'sacrificial', out-of-character wing mirrors & steering wheel, and 'frogeye' headlamp pods to raise the height of the lights).
to be fair what he is suggesting in the add is still illegal.
He is also selling an Escort logbook suggesting it is perfect for putting the vin to a spare shell you have laying about. End of the day still
illegal.
I don't dispute that, but it's what happens when you develop a nanny state that introduces increasingly mindless levels of bureaucracy;
hence I'm afraid I can't get myself worked up into too much self-righteous outrage about it.
All I was trying to say in response to StevieB's post is that if you want a decently accurate Eleven replica you're going to have to set
legalities aside one way or another.
For what it's worth, I personally find it more reprehensible that a large and supposedly reputable company should have been recommending
highly dubious 'dodges' to bypass 'safety' regulations in order to achieve registration of their cars... I'm not at all sure
that 'ringing' the car's identity is any worse than committing deliberate fraud with the IVA inspection, aided and abetted by the
manufacturer!?
Similarly the Escort logbook thing: yes, I know it's technically illegal, but is it really any more of a threat to public safety to use a
logbook identity to create a high-spec rally car around a new replica shell and running gear (which is the most likely outcome), rather than trying to
cobble a rotten and mechanically mullered original back together around a 'genuine' identity?
There are plenty of people out there who would like to see it become illegal to do even basic maintenance work on your own car, never mind accepting,
horror of horrors, completely amateur-built vehicles.
SVA/IVA is the thin end of that wedge, yet we seem determined to drive the wedge deeper by giving the regulations gravitas and credibility, siding
with them against our fellow enthusiasts instead of treating them as the bureaucratic absurdity that they really are. 
The way I see it is,would I trust a car built by me, or God forbid someone less capable without IVA. The answer I'm afraid is no.
I agree with Sam. But.........
As has been said many times before we are lucky in the UK that we can still register a home built car, albeit having jumped through the IVA/DVLA
hoops.
I personally agree with IVA. It's far from perfect and I think some parts of it are a bit stupid but the requirement is reasonable. I think that
since it's introduction the general quality of kits and builds has increased.
If people keep blatantly flouting the rules then the bureaucrats just have more ammunition to use against us and eventually it will become impossible
to build and legally register a home built or Kit car.
Nobody wants further legislation like in some countries where you need a new MOT if you fit different wheels or non OE parts.
So yes blatant flouters of the more basic and clear parts of the law need to pack it in and let the rest of us enjoy our hobby.
quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
I agree with Sam. But.........
As has been said many times before we are lucky in the UK that we can still register a home built car, albeit having jumped through the IVA/DVLA hoops.
I personally agree with IVA. It's far from perfect and I think some parts of it are a bit stupid but the requirement is reasonable. I think that since it's introduction the general quality of kits and builds has increased.
If people keep blatantly flouting the rules then the bureaucrats just have more ammunition to use against us and eventually it will become impossible to build and legally register a home built or Kit car.
Nobody wants further legislation like in some countries where you need a new MOT if you fit different wheels or non OE parts.
So yes blatant flouters of the more basic and clear parts of the law need to pack it in and let the rest of us enjoy our hobby.
Yes, fair comments and well put.
I agree that SVA/IVA has resulted in an increase in general quality, though the counter argument is that it has absolutely decimated the
industry and in so doing has stifled a lot of innovation and enterprise that would have otherwise greatly benefited UK automotive engineering and the
economy as a whole... the increase in quality has not been proportionate to the reduction in the industry, sadly, and there really wasn't a big
issue back in the old days of just a thorough MOT for kits. As such, it was a fix for a problem that never really existed, though I appreciate that
the UK was forced in that direction by wider EU bureaucracy.
We're stuck with it, though, so I guess the focus has to be on not making it worse, and yes, you're right, blatant disregard for the rules
does give ammunition to tighten things up still further.
People will always seek loopholes in inconvenient legislation, though, so I'm afraid I'm neither surprised nor particularly angered by it -
it's just human nature.
But since it's not really causing a big problem (how could it, since the legislation it seeks to bypass was not all that necessary?), at the
moment, the only thing really drawing the bureaucrats' attention to the practice is the regular grumblings of a handful of knowledgeable
enthusiasts on forums such as this.
To horribly mix metaphors, best to turn a blind eye and let sleeping dogs lie, lest you get what you wish for in the form of even blunter, more
intrusive legislation?
[Edited on 7/12/15 by Sam_68]
I think the statement that SVA/IVA has decimated the kit car industry is totally wrong, what it did was stop unsafe kits from getting onto the road . Th credit crunch didn't help sales which caused kit car companies to cease trading
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
I think the statement that SVA/IVA has decimated the kit car industry is totally wrong, what it did was stop unsafe kits from getting onto the road . Th credit crunch didn't help sales which caused kit car companies to cease trading
I think SVA/IVA is needed without a doubt, I appreciate that it isn't perfect by any means and some of the SVA/IVA kits/measures available to
help cars pass is evidence of that (even on factory cars presented)
With all due respect, Imagine the standard of some cars that would be on the road without it ?
It would only take a couple of serious RTA's where loss of life occurred due to faulty engineering/workmanship etc and then that would really
decimate the kit car industry
To be fair if you wander around some of the owners cars at kit car shows you can see where SVA/IVA came from
Having said that of course there are some very high standard home builds out there that are better than factory cars
As for 'Dodgy' registering, well its just that 'dodgy'. If it isn't registered correctly then I always advise to leave it
where it is....
'
One other thought and don't shoot the messenger, I wonder what might the long term implications be if a few weld's on homemade chassis
failed and people were killed as a result ?
Those of us that are lucky enough to be able to weld have seen poor welding from some folk in our lifetime and with respect there's nowt stopping
a bloke that's never welded in his life putting a chassis together ?
Not a criticism, just a thought...
[Edited on 7/12/15 by perksy]
[Edited on 7/12/15 by perksy]
quote:
Originally posted by perksy
... with all due respect, Imagine the standard of some cars that would be on the road without it ?
As has been said previously I think we're lucky to live in a country where you can build your own car (including the chassis) and be able to
legally register and use it on the public road.
You have to have rules, like them or not, Otherwise It might end up like a scene from Mad Max down the M1
Imagine trying to IVA some of those vehicles 
quote:
Originally posted by perksy
You have to have rules, like them or not...
I've said this before, if you went to Stoneleigh in the late 80's, all the pavillions/sheds were full of manufacturers.
The larger number were just plain rubbish, and if SVA managed to weed these out, then the world of kits is all the better for it.
When a Lamborghini or GT40 replica is put on show, complete with 1" tube, round and or square, chassis, then it is definitely time to do
something.
We all have Dr. George Read and his colleagues to thank for the SVA/IVA system as it is. Without them, the Germans would have got their way and a full
TUV system would be with us. This would have made the Aus system that I am much in favour of (excepting the contradictory emissions rules, but
that's another story), look like a beginners effort.
The kit industry seems to be drifting backwards to where it was, and it's up to the mfrs to pull their boots up, and clean up their acts, before
Nanny steps in again.
With that 11, like so many kits around, it is far too easy to 'ring' a kit. How easy would it be, to thieve a good Westfield/Catervan/MK
or such, then put it through IVA as your own (after removing any ID), new paint, then reregister it as a new build, that maybe had track use only for
a few years? A nice car is yours for less than £1k. Appalling!
Nev.
We have IVA at present and a car must be IVA compatible at time of test. Once test is passed it must be MOT compatible in order to stay on the road. A Westfield Eleven that passes IVA obviously meets first requirement, and Westfield provide help to enable builders to ensure it does. If builder wishes to keep car to that spec they can, if they choose to make changes then they must meet second requirement. So no different to any other car on road. Hardly fraud. Whereas registering a car using paperwork from another car is fraud and unlike the Westfield is never legal. IVA and MOT are for safety requirements. V5 is to stop theft, the two issues are hardly the same. As to the car built using a replica shell and new running gear that also needs new id and iva. Problem of course is that it is difficult to prove if shell is replica or repaired, but at least two classic (and very expensive) Bugatti's have had registration revoked due to using non original chassis, So rally escorts with 5 link suspension etc could be subject to same at anytime.