what sort of material should be used to make the shafts for gears to be mounted on? is it best to make them on a lathe or can they be bought with a
suitable finish?bearings and gears i can work out, but not what goes between them. any help appreciated. the planned application is a 3 shaft, 3 cog
transfer box. cheers.
Try this link, you mad inventive dude.]
Originally posted by JoelP
what sort of material should be used to make the shafts for gears to be mounted on? is it best to make them on a lathe or can they be bought with a
suitable finish?bearings and gears i can work out, but not what goes between them. any help appreciated. the planned application is a 3 shaft, 3 cog
transfer box. cheers.
cheers al.
As the link says, you would typically want a hardened surface to mount them on. Not sure who would sell those Timken/Torrington bits - try someone like BSL, theyhave a branch in Leeds and are a big distributor for Timken products.
my new line of thought is to get the gear makers to make them with the shafts 'built in', so to speak. Seems easier than me welding them and
distorting it all. next, i need to work out how to make the output shaft take a plate like the diff flange. splined shaft seems easier, ideally the
same dimensions as the ones in a sierra diff. Really should take a diff apart and see how the flange connects up to it...
any idea where the BSL branch is in leeds? cheers.
[Edited on 22/11/04 by JoelP]
Used to be on Parkside Lane Industrial Estate, off Dewsbury Road.
For getting gears made, not sure if they do them, but try HB Precision Engineering or HB Bearings in Honley near Huddersfield. Excellent quality and
specialise in making one offs.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
my new line of thought is to get the gear makers to make them with the shafts 'built in', so to speak. Seems easier than me welding them and distorting it all. next, i need to work out how to make the output shaft take a plate like the diff flange. splined shaft seems easier, ideally the same dimensions as the ones in a sierra diff. Really should take a diff apart and see how the flange connects up to it...
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
JoelP, wtf are you up to? Anything the rest of us can help with? My needle went into the red when I read the words weld, shaft, flange and diff.
im pondering the pair of gears used at the front of the twin bike engined setup. the gears need to be in a housing, dont they, for lubrication. so
really, im trying to make a box with two cogs in it, with an input that can link to a bike output shaft, and an output that can be linked to the jack
shaft, which will actually be a modded sierra propshaft. any suggestions amigo?!
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
The forward facing flange would hold a sprocket that would be hooked up to the LH engine's output sprocket. The rearwards facing flange would hook up to the prop shaft.
ps, in my scheme both engines are in the back. just incase you are refering to a front engined vehicle.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
The forward facing flange would hold a sprocket that would be hooked up to the LH engine's output sprocket. The rearwards facing flange would hook up to the prop shaft.
this is similar to how i imagined it, but i didnt have a forward facing sprocket in my plan. Instead, the n/s engine (the one with the chain drive) would link up to a sprocket on the diff flange, at the opposite end of the prop to where the gears are. Hence, the engines would be side by side. Is this what you mean, or would you have the n/s engine further forward?
as for how many do i want, loads! do you know if bike output shafts have a common size?
im going to draw a piccy! another notoriously bad ms paint one im afraid... gimme two mins!
right then. the sprockets are in red, the gears are in blue! the actual box around the gears is missing for clarity.
Image deleted by owner
really hope that makes sense!...
[Edited on 23/11/04 by JoelP]
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
right then. the sprockets are in red, the gears are in blue! the actual box around the gears is missing for clarity.
Image deleted by owner
Why not use the arrangement and transfer box used by this guy:
http://www.just-the-one.net/index.html
Of course, you will have to have both engines pointing the same way, but in logitudinal arrangement as you have them. The box will also provide you
with 6 reverse gears. Could be useful for driving in downtown Baghdad!
Personally , I cn't figure out how the reverse works. Could any of the "seniors" explain please?
Cheers
Karl
I seem to remember the Citroen bX i used to have had a transfer from engine to gearbox using something similiar, IE three gears in a casing that
bolted to the end of the gearbox and transfere the drive .
Maybe it would be worth looking at?
Ill get the haynes book later and have a look.
Paul
im not a senior, but i was looking at that box the other day. basically, to reverse it simply links the two cogs together. i guess you knew that
bit... really simple. obviously no syncro required cos nothing is moving as you engage reverse.
that transfer box is designed for a front engine car. to use it in a middy, you would need the engines in front of eachother. the prop from the front
engine comes down the side of the rear engine, into the box. to have them side by side, you would need to make the box MUCH wider, and if you're
making the full shmia, you may as well make it how you want it!
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
I would get that RH axle looked at, it looks a bit dodgy.
quote:
It all makes sense now. I didn't read your previous post properly and was confusing myself.
I can't imediately think of another method of creating the gear drive without using a potentially expensive casing. The gears would be turning too fast to just have an ocassional dollop of grease applied.
The casing wouldn't necessarily have to be attached to the RH engine, in stead, it could be bolted to the chassis and the RH gear could engage the RH engine's output shaft with a cush drive.
quote:
The casing would replace a separate front bearing as in your drawing.
quote:
The LH engine would be better driving a sprocket mounted directly on the diff rather than on the prop shaft.
But apart from that, it sounds like a runner.
Just looked at the BX manual and there is a transfer box with three gears and a coverplate , one shaft is the input shaft on which the clutch slides,
the other is the input to gearbox and both are attached to the gears. There is an idler gear on its own stub shaft between.The whole assembly attaches
on the end of the bell housing and is sealed with a cover plate.
Maybe two of the main castings could be utilised back to back with a little machining and some spacers to retain the bearings. This would leave two
well supported shafts to join up elswhere.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i was thinking of getting the front and back plate cut from 10mm plate, with the holes in to hold the bearings. then i would get some more 10mm plates to make the sides of the box. hence i also need to learn to tap holes too...
oil would be either splashing, or more likely a pump scavanged from an engine. maybe a cooler too.
Just a shame that the standard sprocket is smaller than a sierra diff flange, makes it a bit of a twat to get together. i might just buy a spare sprocket and chain, and squeeze it in. is it possible to change the length of a bike chain?
Thanks Joel for pointing me over here.
Working on the same problem over here.
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2
engines transverse inline...
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2 engines transverse inline...
im guessing its either both on the n/s
(is uk nearside the same as US nearside?!), or both sprockets facing in. you could use 4 beveled gears to send drive both forward and backward, though
obviously there would then be no centre diff. quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
transverse inline... would that be sprockets in, out or both facing left? or right i suppose, to be complete!
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Thanks Joel for pointing me over here.
Working on the same problem over here.
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2 engines transverse inline...
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
I just tried posting DXF files of the Honda CBR600-RR and Suzuki GSXR600 engines, but obviously the forum won't accept that format.
I'll email them to you so you can get started straight away.
nice piccies mr G. you still toying with ideas or are you getting tempted?! hows the back?
There's a couple of good resources for this stuff
First off is Z-Cars http://www.zcars.org.uk/. Chris Allanson has been building twin grass track racers for
yonks, and is also responsible for the twin engined tigers / and a number of westfields like the Tim's at
http://www.just-the-one.net/. Take a look at their Twin-engined BEC RWD Mini - this is a working
solution to your problem.
Secondly is the BEC group on Yahoo! This discussion has been had several times there, with a number of novel solutions / suggestions.
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/bike-engined-cars/
HTH
Stephen
www.cantcatchme.net
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
nice piccies mr G. you still toying with ideas or are you getting tempted?!
My back is much better now and I am doing the car thing full-swing again. Happy me.
I have visited both those websites several times. Nothing much mentioned about synchronization issues between the engines.
What do those in the "know" think about these gears? They are found in a mid-80's Chrysler transmission.
They are splined internally.
First impression is that they look quite large. They may be needlessly too large. Being helical gears, they will require substsntial bearings (hence
the taper roller bearings) and bearing support to resist the sideways thrust. They will run quieter than straight cut gears though, but I really
don't know if that would be a problem, as the bike engines' boxes are all straight cut and you're talking about running two of them
with twice the engine and exhaust noise.
I would be inclined to look at bike boxes for light weight, strong, splined gears. Some bike shafts could also be useful.
A good source of cheap, off-the-shelf splined shafts and gears is your local industrial supplier. You can buy 4 and 6 splined shafting and matching
gears. They should also have just about every imaginable accessory for a driveline, including matching splined UJs, blank or "weld" splined
hubs and internally splined bearings etc.
For one-offs and mockups, they are a valuable resource.
Most gear supply outfits also stock standard items which may be useful and fairly cheap.
Once you have a satisfactory set-up, you could then look at refining it and possibly have some custom parts machined.
I've used off-the-shelf stuff for several projects simply because I can pick what I need out of a catalogue.
You'd be surprised who uses the same stuff in high-end drives and machinery.
A quick look on Google brought this lot up from your side of the pond: Arrow Gear.
[Edited on 28/11/04 by Rorty]
looking at my HPC gear catalogue, the gears i think would be most suited are about 17 quid each! is that a normal price?
thats for a heavy duty gear, 25mm wide, 30 teeth, 60mm PCD and a 20mm bore. £17.78 each. YG2-30 on page 472, if anyone is interested and has a
copy.
any thoughts on this cog? is it overkill? underkill? right material?