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English Wheel
907 - 3/2/05 at 09:10 PM

With a little bit of prompting from a mate,
I'm contemplating having a bash at making one of these.

Anyone ever used one ?

Aluminium wheel arches would be sooo nice.
With a bit of practice maybe even a nosecone ?

Paul G Rescued attachment english wheel s.jpg
Rescued attachment english wheel s.jpg

mangogrooveworkshop - 3/2/05 at 09:49 PM

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemType=CATEGORY&itemID=829


Mark Allanson - 3/2/05 at 10:11 PM

For anyone with a decent welder and a lathe, it could be a locost proposition?

mark_UK - 3/2/05 at 10:13 PM

Might get some ideas here: http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/cforums.cgi?forumid=109061855423990
and this one:
http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/12ewheel.html

[Edited on 3/2/05 by mark_UK]

stevebubs - 3/2/05 at 10:23 PM

Frost Used Section

Browser - 3/2/05 at 10:32 PM

quote:

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/12ewheel.html

[Edited on 3/2/05 by mark_UK]


Had a look at that one and it looks great! I'll definitely HAVE to try and get the bits together for one and have a go. Always wanted one but could never justify the expense, but I think I can stretch to a couple of bearings and can probably scrounge the frame metal from offcuts from local fabricators.

[Edited on 3/2/05 by Browser]

mark_UK - 3/2/05 at 11:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Browser
Had a look at that one and it looks great! I'll definitely HAVE to try and get the bits together for one and have a go........
[Edited on 3/2/05 by Browser]

At thetime I was looking about 6 months ago one guy had a site up showing you everything drawings sizes the lot.Unfortunately someone pointed out he could make some money from it,needless to say the web site disappeared Doesnt look too hard to "wing it" tho

Rob Lane - 3/2/05 at 11:08 PM

Eddy White was selling a bench mounted version on ebay not long ago for something around £150.

The larger ones fetch a lot of money.

Martin at MK made himself a freestanding one quite cheaply I believe.

timsta - 3/2/05 at 11:23 PM

'ere you go: http://www.metalcrafttools.com/engwheel.html

You shouldn't need the plans, it all look simple enough.


Or, step by step: http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/12ewheel.html

[Edited on 3/2/05 by timsta]

CairB - 3/2/05 at 11:25 PM

I'm sure that some of the FEA designers amongst us could present a minimum metal, optimised solution made from left over 1" RHS, a bit of hydraulic tubing, used wheel bearings, and a pair of wheels for the diy toolers to fabricate.

Then we can all hum those old favourites whilst we fabricate such as:

We'll meet again..
4 wheels on my waggon..(sorry that's american)



Cheers,

Colin

907 - 4/2/05 at 12:37 AM

Another one is:-

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/12ewheel.html

This shows how to make one, including the rollers, a "Ford axle bearing" and a "pillow block bearing".

I'd estimate £70 for the whole thing.

Paul G

Soul-tez - 4/2/05 at 03:39 AM

There is a ton of metalshaping info here http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php

Rorty - 4/2/05 at 05:49 AM

I cant let this topic go by without posting this link.

timf - 4/2/05 at 08:25 AM

for those making the full sized ones.
and needing anvils etc
look here for a us vendor who exports and for a resonable price

David Jenkins - 4/2/05 at 08:42 AM

You could also look here

The Tin Man

The frame doesn't look too hard to a man with your skills - but the hardened rolls are expensive!.

David

907 - 4/2/05 at 08:28 PM

Good replies chaps, but still want to find someone who has used one.

Anyone know where you can buy "casenite"? ( case hardening powder )

Paul G

David Jenkins - 4/2/05 at 09:12 PM

Paul,
It's spelled with a 'K' - Kasenite or Kasenit - I know a few model engineering suppliers but they tend to sell small quantities only. Blackgates Engineering is one - a Google will find them.
Otherwise it comes in big tins - £82 + VAT for 5kg is one I found!

David

gazza285 - 4/2/05 at 10:04 PM

You could take the anvils to your local engine refurb spot and ask then to nitride/tuffride them.

Rorty - 5/2/05 at 12:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Paul,
It's spelled with a 'K' - Kasenite or Kasenit - I know a few model engineering suppliers but they tend to sell small quantities only. Blackgates Engineering is one - a Google will find them.
Otherwise it comes in big tins - £82 + VAT for 5kg is one I found!

David

In the good old days before proprietry case-hardening compounds, blacksmiths and toolmakers used various recipes to impart a higher carbon layer on steel. Ground hooves and horn were favoured by my local blacksmith; he just plunged machine parts into a bucket of the powder. A friend in NI was a turner and fitter for Goodyear and he preferred his secret mixture that contained sugar! It smelled like candyfloss when he used it. Basically, anything that's friable and high in carbon will do the trick.
I made a really smart pair of large dividers and case-hardened them in the hoof and horn mix. I still have them to this day and they are perfect; no perceivable wear or surface damage.

907 - 5/2/05 at 07:43 AM

I like the idea of the sugar Rorty.

I assume that it would catch fire if a red hot lump of steel was dipped in it.

At a lower temp it would turn to toffee.
Ummm, maybe I'll try that.

Paul G

NS Dev - 5/2/05 at 11:28 AM

907, if you have an oxy-acetylene torch and plenty of gas, just flame harden!

Get a rich flame going and play it over the part for a good while, then up the oxygen and blast it until dull red and quench.

907 - 5/2/05 at 05:05 PM

It makes me think of my college days.

" The Products of the Oxyacetylene Flame "

O, the good old days.

Paul G

907 - 26/10/05 at 07:38 PM

The day I start making the bodywork is looming, so I thought I'd better crack on with the "wheel".

It's cost me £48 so far, so a waste of money..... or a bargain?


I'll probably knacker loads of ally sheet,

then go and buy some fibreglass.

Paul G Rescued attachment E-wheel-s.jpg
Rescued attachment E-wheel-s.jpg

David Jenkins - 26/10/05 at 09:29 PM

Um... isn't the bottom wheel supposed to adjustable up and down? The real e-wheels have a big wheel at the bottom to adjust the roller spacing.

Or is that bit hidden somewhere?

David

Rorty - 26/10/05 at 09:47 PM

Yes, the anvil has to be adjustable. Here's my set-up: Rescued attachment e-wheel_02.gif
Rescued attachment e-wheel_02.gif

liam.mccaffrey - 26/10/05 at 10:16 PM

907 will have made provision for this im sure guys, to make an english wheel you must understand how one works. I don't think it is as it appears

JoelP - 26/10/05 at 10:29 PM

i too wondered which bit moved, but to be honest, you'd need to be real stupid to make it with both wheels fixed and i assume he knows a little more about it than me!

NS Dev - 26/10/05 at 10:37 PM

and his welding is far too bloody neat, git!

907 - 26/10/05 at 11:24 PM

It's the opposite way up to Rorty's,

but then again, since he's in Oz it would be.

The vertical bit is 80 x 80 box. Inside it is a bit of 70 x70 and a thread runs
down the middle with a wheel underneath, (or it will have when it's finished).

The frame is 120 x 60 x 6.

I have no idea how strong it will need to be, but the plan is to have a throat
big enough to make an air scoop in a bonnet.

Any advise welcome.

Paul G

Rorty - 26/10/05 at 11:30 PM

I didn't doubt your ability at all having seen some of your fabrication work before.
Does your Ewheel have a kick wheel for adjustment then? Some swear by them and some swear at them when they repeatedly anneal their shins on them.

907 - 26/10/05 at 11:38 PM

That's the idea.

Thinking of M18 fine (because I have a tap that size).

Is the finer the better?

Paul G

Rorty - 27/10/05 at 12:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 907
That's the idea.

Thinking of M18 fine (because I have a tap that size).

Is the finer the better?

Paul G

Yes, although a weaker thread, finer is better, but I'd up the size to at least M22 x 1.5 (or even M24 x 2) especially as it's a kick wheel and will be subject to greater side loads and the inevitable knocks.

rusty nuts - 28/10/05 at 05:55 PM

Paul, might be able to help with a larger tap. Possibly up to 22mm if it's any help .

907 - 28/10/05 at 06:55 PM

Is that M22 fine (x1.5)?

If it is, that would be great Melvyn.

I have all the normal metric taps up to 24 and brakes (10x1), fan switch (14x1.25), and the w/bones (18x1).
At £20 ish apiece I grudge buying them just to cut one thread.

Cheers,

Paul G

907 - 29/10/05 at 08:21 PM

The wheels nearly finished.

Just a few probs to iron out; like get rid of that spanner hanging on the bottom.

AND IT WORKS , well sort of.


Now where did I put those ally offcuts.


Paul G Rescued attachment e-wheel-8-s.jpg
Rescued attachment e-wheel-8-s.jpg

907 - 29/10/05 at 08:31 PM

WOW, 1000 hours of practice and I should get the hang of this.

and what's more, I'v still got my thumbs.


Pic below is a bonnet bulge for a Fiat 500

Paul G Rescued attachment bump-s.jpg
Rescued attachment bump-s.jpg

Avoneer - 29/10/05 at 09:41 PM

And how smooth did it end up?

Looking really good though.

Will there be a spurt of wheel arches like the cans?

Pat...

Rorty - 29/10/05 at 09:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 907
WOW, 1000 hours of practice and I should get the hang of this.

and what's more, I'v still got my thumbs.


Pic below is a bonnet bulge for a Fiat 500

Paul G

Beautiful job Paul. Make sure you polish the hell out of those wheels and anvil as their surface finish is directly related to the finish you'll get on your work.

907 - 29/10/05 at 11:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer


Will there be a spurt of wheel arches like the cans?

Pat...



There certainly will Pat.

The thread will be called...

"Anyone need a Wok?"


As for the finish, I'll have a go with a rag mop and see what it comes up like.

Maybe I should have gone down in smaller stages. I think it's going to be a bit of a learning curve.

The pic below is the best I can do. It's taken about 50 mm from the surface.

Paul G

907 - 29/10/05 at 11:23 PM

Doh Rescued attachment bump-texture-s.jpg
Rescued attachment bump-texture-s.jpg

Gaz 1977 - 30/10/05 at 10:06 PM

looking good, cant wait to see more results

907 - 31/10/05 at 12:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
looking good, cant wait to see more results



Fish pond liner. Now there's a project.

Paul G
aka Dad

Gaz 1977 - 1/11/05 at 01:46 PM

I cant believe that mother used your head as a former for the ally

Cita - 1/11/05 at 02:12 PM

907 - 9/11/05 at 08:18 PM

First of all, many thanks for all the assistance I'v had with this little project,
especialy Melvyn, (Rusty Nuts) for the loan of the M22f tap, delivered it too.

It's now finished. All I'v got to do now is learn how to use it.

From the pics I'v seen on the net, I'v come to the conclusion that they have
to be painted a realy revolting colour, so mine's "poppy", to match my eyes.

Many thanks everyone,

Paul G Rescued attachment Its-wheelie-done.jpg
Rescued attachment Its-wheelie-done.jpg

Rorty - 9/11/05 at 08:27 PM

Very nice too. Well done. Can I have a set of 18/10 saucepans please?

907 - 9/11/05 at 08:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
Very nice too. Well done. Can I have a set of 18/10 saucepans please?




Would that be a 10 inch, and an 18 inch then?

What do you have in mind..... JAM MAKING?


Paul G

Rorty - 9/11/05 at 09:15 PM

18/10 being the stainless material to really test your skills, but since you're offering, I do need a new jam pan. I'm not allowed to make my marmalade in the copper one anymore as it has been elevated to ornament status!

stevebubs - 9/11/05 at 10:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 907
Good replies chaps, but still want to find someone who has used one.

Anyone know where you can buy "casenite"? ( case hardening powder )

Paul G


They had one at the welding course I attended in Bracknell (was also covering sheet metal work). they had the bodywork guy in showing how to repair panels etc. he got us to use one of these in turn to start forming the metal for a wheel arch patch.

Quite impressive the way it works - just keep sliding back and forth.

Stephen

PS If you ever watch American hotrod, they use theirs quite frequently for forming chassis rails etc.

[Edited on 15/11/05 by stevebubs]

stevebubs - 9/11/05 at 10:25 PM

PS Just scrolled down and seen the finished item - very nice!

JoelP - 11/11/05 at 10:10 PM

i saw a chap on american chopper using one, was suprised as i hadnt realised you just pushed the metal back and forth!

Rorty - 11/11/05 at 10:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i saw a chap on american chopper using one, was suprised as i hadnt realised you just pushed the metal back and forth!

It's so bloody easy isnn't it? NOT! It takes an unbelieveable degree of skill to produce good results.
An old friend of mine in Somerset used to make replica aluminium racing bodies for 3000l Healeys and he made the front wings from a single sheet of ally! (The factory ones were made in two pieces and joined.)

907 - 12/11/05 at 12:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Rorty

An old friend of mine in Somerset used to make replica aluminium racing bodies for 3000l Healeys and he made the front wings from a single sheet of ally! (The factory ones were made in two pieces and joined.)



I fully expect to make my nose cone from 20 sheets of ally.

That's 19 to practice on...............

Paul G

Trev D - 23/11/05 at 04:50 PM

Hi Paul if you are in Northampton one day give me a call i will take you to were i work Im Sure you will like it regards Trev.

907 - 23/11/05 at 10:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Trev D
Hi Paul if you are in Northampton one day give me a call i will take you to were i work Im Sure you will like it regards Trev.



Hi Trev,

I can't think of anything I'd like better.

I'd be like a dog with two tails.

Would this be a weekday or weekend?


Many thanks

Paul G

Trev D - 23/11/05 at 10:33 PM

Week ends best sort out which week end you have free and let me know then we can sort out the final details.

regards Trev

907 - 27/11/05 at 12:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Trev D
Week ends best sort out which week end you have free and let me know then we can sort out the final details.

regards Trev




You have U2U

Cheers, Paul G

907 - 11/12/05 at 07:25 PM

Thanks Trev for the tour of the workshop, the hints, tips and advise.

Your a Saint, a God of the metalworking world.

Thanks again for your time.


Paul G Rescued attachment trev-001-halo.jpg
Rescued attachment trev-001-halo.jpg

Trev D - 11/12/05 at 09:27 PM

Hi Paul glad you had a good time. Good to meet you again hope to see you soon all the best Trev.ps like the picture.