Hi all, found the forum today good reading.

I have always wanted a Lotus 7 and thought I would end up building a Caterham, but now I'm finally looking into it i feel Caterham have lost the ethos of the 7. I really fancy building a chassis from 30 metres (approx) of steel box, but I feel it would be a little time consuming

Therefore I really like the look of a Tiger Avon because of the IRS....but I still like the idea of live axle...oh time will tell.....

Well Hello all...see you about.

[Edited on 113030p://11076 by onzarob]

Hi onzarob and welcome,
you have definately done the right thing by coming here first, there are loads of people here that will answeer just about any question you may have, be it car related or just about anything else actually!
The avon is a lovely looking car but some find it a little cramped plus many have commented on the poor quality of the bodywork.
Also the Avon is not the only one to use IRS.
The live axle route is a perfectly good one but its getting harder to find them nowadays.
your other option is de-dion, this uses IRS parts and converts them to behave like a live axle, kind of!
Cheers dude

Nice Mini in your avatar.

Where you from?

Welcome dude!
See, I'm not the only one that's confused.

Thanks for the nice welcome, I was attracted to the Avon due to the IRS and the cost, but as I spent last night reading on here the cockpit size varies a bit and the rest of the chasis...yes i am confused.

I was aware that the cockpit of a lotus 7 type car was cramped, I am 5.11 so not too big (i think!!). I will need to try a few out before final decision is made though

The Mini was a MK1 Cooper S that i had in 1990. Fully rebuilt by my Dad, Brother and Me. Sadly long gone but not forgotten

Am I right in assuming that because rear live axle setups are now difficult to find that is would be best not to go down that route, I don't like the idea of sierra trialling arms...I'm odd like that.

Donut does your A series use a midget or marina axle? I like the use of a period engine

[Edited on 25-11-2007 by onzarob]

[Edited on 25-11-2007 by onzarob]

Hi, and welcome.

I'm building my own, inspired by the avon, locost and others..........

feel free to ask around, there is a lot off knowledge around on this forum.

As said my chassis is inspired by the avon.
but:
Longer cockpit 100 mm, wider, higher, straight upper-rail, wider track at front, other rear-uprights.....
uhhhh, maybe aint avon anymore

good luck on building.

Hello and welcome.

Why not have a look around at some of the other manufacturers too. Plenty of others do IRS if that's what you want. I'm sure you'll find one or two that tick all the boxes. In no particular order

MNR
MK
MAC#1
GTS

I'm sure there's a few others besides........

Phil

Welcome. I don't think many use the Sierra trailing arms these days

Thanks for the list of manufacturers Hellfire, i will look into them. I basically started looking a a month back and gone down the usually list Caterham, westfield...then Robinhood and then found a few more...

The Robinhood 2b+ still uses the series rear end and the tiger cat e1. I found it easy to spot the front suspension...but the back become a little more caggy...but if i go sown the self build then I'm the boss...I'm loving this, no more compromise,just decide and weld....

T.J. are you using the Tiger Avon Book?

Just had to say hello because of your avatar

quote:

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Originally posted by TGR-ECOSSE
Just had to say hello because of your avatar

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So you've looked at differing ends of the market then....... Caterham at one end, Robin Hood at the other.

The manufacturers I mentioned earlier generally fit between the two in terms of price and quality.

Have a read of our build and rebuild diaries to give you some idea of whats involved. The principles are generally the same, regardless of manufacturer.

Lastly, and I don't say this often but............. have you ever considered fitting a bike engine?

Phil

Onza (I hope that's not too impersonal)

Firstly, welcome.

Secondly, if you're going to build, I'd suggest buying Chris Gibbs book, essentially the latest incarnation of Ron Champions Build You Own etc etc, but with the niggles ironed out (so I've heard!).

MK were quite heavily involved in the development of the "Haynes Roadster" as it's called, so you should find quite a lot of parts, bodywork etc available from them.

If you're brave and in no rush, do a scratch build but, if you're keen to be out in the wind and rain, find a manufacturer (which means go to as many stands at shows or visit premises and look at, sit in and test drive that you can). Pick your faves, then it's down to budget. Get the manufacturer to provide a complete costing.

Ignore Phil (Hellfire), you know you want a proper engine in your car

ATB

Simon

Thanks for the info Simon, 'Rob' is OK LOL

I was wondering where the 'build on a Budget' book fitted in with Ron's original book.

I think i will go down the standard engine route, but you never now...depends whats on offer at the time I jump in.

I do like the idea of building from scratch but that may drag it out too long for the time I have...still undecided.

Shame that I didn't start this earlier in the year as I could of taken the short trip to the Exeter show...oh well

Finally the MK is looking like a good starting point..but I'm still not ruling out picking up a 'failed too complete' project as there seems to be a few about for a good money.

[Edited on 26-11-2007 by onzarob]

quote:

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Originally posted by onzarob

T.J. are you using the Tiger Avon Book?

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B%""^%s, just did a long reply and lost the lot.

A quick word of caution if you are thinking of looking into an unfinished project, take someone experienced (and a ruler). There will probably be a geniune reason why it's unfinished, but someone may have made a bit of a booboo. As the saying goes: All that glitters etc etc.

You haven't mentioned budget, but it'll be either a) come up with a couple of grand - which will get you quite a nice starter kit, plus the donor, which will allow you the chance to spend time renovating parts, till the next chunk of kit is ordered or, b) you have a large wad allowing you to go to a manufacturer and obtain a more or less complete kit; in which case you should have a fairly straightforward assembly.

Either way, keep asking questions - for all the larking around, there are some exceptionally knowledgeable peeps on here.

Btw, what sort of experience do you have with cars and can you weld? A scratch build is immensely satisfying, but can be very frustrating

ATB

Simon

Welcome to the forum..

There is a Avon kit in the For Sale section at the moment.

Look around first before parting with your cash.

Ask plenty of questions on here. Its a good place to ask.

There are several Locoster's in Cornwall, and I am sure they will give you a pep talk and probably a ride in their car, to give you an idea of what they drive like etc.

Dont be a in a huge rush. As you cant rush a good build.


PS.. Plenty of nutters on here, including me

quote:

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Originally posted by walking
Welcome to the forum..

There is a Avon kit in the For Sale section at the moment.

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Several people have got lucky with unfinished projects but from memory i think they all stripped the car right back and rebuilt it. The advantage is you can get a lot of bits for notalootta cash. The hardest bit will be trying to get into the head of the original builder if you try to just finish it off.

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Several people have got lucky with unfinished projects but from memory i think they all stripped the car right back and rebuilt it. The advantage is you can get a lot of bits for notalootta cash. The hardest bit will be trying to get into the head of the original builder if you try to just finish it off.

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I have to agree with Simon.
I bought a part build and to date I have
1... Chopped the front end off to sort out suspension errors
2.... Corrected a difference in length of 2cm from NS to OS
3.... Re mounted the rear suspension pick up's on the axle so I could get the trailing arm nuts on !!
4.... Ripped the handbrake leaver off the transmission tunnel cos it was only 50mm from rear panel!!

Still have to sort out steering column and pedal box.

I think for my next build (yep bitten by the bug) I will look at a new pre built chassis Etc and concentrate on build quality.

RD

I'm glad i decided to take things slow as its a real mine Field. I must admit the more i think about it the more i tend to wards chassis starter kit and go from there. As from your experience it should save some head scratching and allow Me to get on with the build

From experience would have thought the Avon to be too small even for a 5 11 driver, have known shorter people who still needed to mod heavily to get in comfortably.

quote:

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Originally posted by mouglie
From experience would have thought the Avon to be too small even for a 5 11 driver, have known shorter people who still needed to mod heavily to get in comfortably.

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When you create your list of 'must haves', number one needs to be a bike engine otherwise your list will be wrong.

Phil

quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
When you create your list of 'must haves', number one needs to be a bike engine otherwise your list will be wrong.

Phil

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Hellfire excuse my blindness, I'm rapidly reading your build diary.......Nice saftey testing of the chassis!!!

Agriv8 on here has an MNR and having met him at Donnington, he's about 8ft 6in so safe to say you will fit in no probs.

As for reverse, well personally i am going to go to SVA without one and see how I get on. I may fit an electric reverse later though which many companies now do (inc MNR) which very basically consists of a starter motor and a ring gear on the propshaft at either diff or engine end (depending on space).

As for emmissions, depending on engine you will most likely need a Cat. Many people have got on the road before you so plenty can advise depending on your engine choice (whether carbs or injection)

Most people with BEC's don't bother fitting a reverse. It goes against the whole ethos of BEC's, which is light weight and personally, I've yet to come across a reverse mechanism that is/has been trouble free.

BEC's tend to weigh in at around 500kg and as such are quite easy to push backwards, even on a slight incline.

Reverse isn't an SVA requirement and bike engines don't have any problems getting through SVA.

How tall are you? You should fit in most of the manufacturers chassis I posted earlier in this thread.

If you've never been in a BEC, I'd suggest you at least get a passenger ride in one before you decide to go down that route. If you're ever up this way, give us a shout, we'd be more than happy to take you out for a spin.

Phil

[Edited on 30-11-07 by Hellfire]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire

How tall are you? You should fit in most of the manufacturers chassis I posted earlier in this thread.

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quote:

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If you've never been in a BEC, I'd suggest you at least get a passenger ride in one before you decide to go down that route. If you're ever up this way, give us a shout, we'd be more than happy to take you out for a spin.

Phil

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Rob,

I'm 5' 11 3/4" (apparently), and about 15 stone and fit my car fine. I built my chassis from scratch and made it 4" wider than book.

You really do need to think about the engine - it's needs to be a proper one

ATB

Simon

quote:

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Originally posted by Simon
Rob,

I'm 5' 11 3/4" (apparently), and about 15 stone and fit my car fine. I built my chassis from scratch and made it 4" wider than book.

You really do need to think about the engine - it's needs to be a proper one

ATB

Simon

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Rob
If your dad is such a dab hand at welding then it just has to be a scratch build 442 Mcsorley. Plane for this are available free form the web http://www.mcsorley.net/locost/
and if nothing else will wet your appitite over christmas.

quote:

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Originally posted by dnmalc
scratch build 442 Mcsorley.

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Bike Engines are available from LB member 'Yorkshire Engines'.....

Just some more useful info for ya...........

Phil

quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
Bike Engines are available from LB member 'Yorkshire Engines'.....

Just some more useful info for ya...........

Phil

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quote:

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Originally posted by onzarob

Paul TigerB6 you've got a B6 hows that for room?

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Thanks for the link a couple people in my neck of the woods. Personally I think the two front runner for me is the Tiger Avon/R6 (undecided) and the MK Indy (I like the classic lines it has

But that just talk, as until I see some and have a ride its hard to say

A 442 is a chassis that is 4inches longer and 4 inches wider in the passenger well as well as being 2 inches higher in the basic chassis this gives a stronger stiffer chassis better able to take engines sucgh as v8s as well as giving the driver & passenger more room. These are a common alteration to the basic design and many of the kit car manufactures have incorporated the extra width already as +4inches on the width means that you can use the sierra rear irs and the sierra steering rack without modifications tothe length.

Thanks for the explanation, i've been looking at the diagrams and then i was looking at Big_wasa's pictures. there a diference in the front section and the lower rail below the engine, are these recommended changes?

There is always the new haynes roadster and I just happen to have tripped over one today....

Mark

quote:

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Originally posted by Triton
There is always the new haynes roadster and I just happen to have tripped over one today....

Mark

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Upside down back to front at the moment as not fully moved into new workshop but by all means if you are ever out near Penryn and that nutty set of roundabouts at treluswell.

Mark

quote:

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Originally posted by Triton
Upside down back to front at the moment as not fully moved into new workshop but by all means if you are ever out near Penryn and that nutty set of roundabouts at treluswell.

Mark

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Certainly entertaining at half 7 in the morning...

quote:

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Originally posted by Triton
Certainly entertaining at half 7 in the morning...

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Hi and Welcome!

Similar to Hellfire Phil, I don't often mention this but, You need to get a run out in a Bike Engined Car...

And the offer from him applies from me too, if you are ever in this area!
I have taken a couple of people out who thought they would stick to car engines, and there plans have changed in about three and a half seconds!!!

The MNR in my build diary is a trackday only car that is being built for TimC, and the build diary and gallery on my website is my own car I built last Dec/Jan/Feb.

Because you don't seem to have anyone that close to you, the obvious thing to do (if you can wait this long!) is to get yourself along to any of the shows - Stoneleigh is quite a good one, and as above, I'm sure that myself and few others would be more than pleased to take you out!

Cheers,
Steve

Hmm...

The Viento (like mine) is on the Left.
The Velocity is on the right.
Velocity is a Locost sized chassis, with about +2" extra height in the bodywork to accomodate taller engines.
The Viento is about 12" longer, 6" wider, and 4" taller than a book locost. It will accomodate most V8's and straight 6's with ease,
(and even V10's, but you run into power / chassis torque issues - see www.v10viento.co.uk) and still have room to spare.
Have a look through my archive, and the Luego Demonstrator section, as I took a lot of photos showing various angles and clearances etc.

The Mc Sorley 442 is 4" longer, 4" wider and 2" higher. It makes a nice car with a bit more room.
The Haynes Roadster is nice, and is about 2" wider
The Viento is a bit of a monster size wise... But then I'm 5'10" and 20 stones.
its very nice for longer touring trips and can pack a lot of camping gear in the extra space (for the shows etc).
My Son is 6' 5" and 21 stone.
So we weigh in at about 1/3rd of the weight of the car So the Viento with a V8 was the right choice for me / us.
Even with that size and weight, with a Rover 3.5, the 0-60 time is just sub 5 seconds (only just!!)
Standing 1/4 mile is 14.849 seconds (including spinning the wheels all the way in first, and missing 3rd gear half way up the track. (See the vid on my website)
I recon I could knock another 0.5 secs off that by just driving better and not missing 3rd gear!

So what every you make, it will be fairly quick, and imense fun to drive.


Viento Versus Velocity (Size)

quote:

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Originally posted by worX
Hi and Welcome!

Similar to Hellfire Phil, I don't often mention this but, You need to get a run out in a Bike Engined Car...

And the offer from him applies from me too, if you are ever in this area!
I have taken a couple of people out who thought they would stick to car engines, and there plans have changed in about three and a half seconds!!!

---

quote:

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Originally posted by worX

The MNR in my build diary is a trackday only car that is being built for TimC, and the build diary and gallery on my website is my own car I built last Dec/Jan/Feb.

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quote:

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Originally posted by worX
(if you can wait this long!)

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I hadn't noticed the diary not working and then a friend (McLannahan) spotted it and is going to help me sort it out! Me and computers aren't bestest chums!

Should be back up in the next day or so I would of thought! Check back or drop a U2U if you'd like any direct info. I've just sent you a U2U!

Steve

So Rob after all of the advice whats on the agenda for the Christmas break. you need to be planning it now or else you will find all of the place who sell the bits you need will be shut?

quote:

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Originally posted by dnmalc
So Rob after all of the advice whats on the agenda for the Christmas break. you need to be planning it now or else you will find all of the place who sell the bits you need will be shut?

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