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do rear wings work on 7 type cars?

daniel mason - 7/2/12 at 06:50 PM

do rear wings actually create any downforce on the rear of a 7 type car or do they only work at extreme speeds? also the front nose cone cannards? are these just a gimmick or not?

coozer - 7/2/12 at 06:57 PM

Also folks, what affect would putting a hard panel on top of the roll cage do for aerodynamics?

steve m - 7/2/12 at 07:02 PM

It would be as much use a snow plow on an F1

MakeEverything - 7/2/12 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
It would be as much use a snow plow on an F1

Would look like one too.

iank - 7/2/12 at 07:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Also folks, what affect would putting a hard panel on top of the roll cage do for aerodynamics?

Having sat in one of these with the roof box I can say for sure it will be very windy in the drivers seat if you don't have a screen.

snapper - 7/2/12 at 08:14 PM

I think I would go for a flat undertray and a diffuser first, then canards, possibly followed by a front wing and last would be a rear wing

motorcycle_mayhem - 7/2/12 at 08:45 PM

In my experience, it may create something, probably high drag....

In sprinting, my competitors with huge amounts of HP, wings, undertrays and those cute little nosecone whiskers, were usually slower...

A '7' is a turbulent brick. I'm unsure (for the same reason) if an undertray and rear wing would improve my 109 SII Land Rover...

onenastyviper - 7/2/12 at 08:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
I think I would go for a flat undertray and a diffuser first, then canards, possibly followed by a front wing and last would be a rear wing

What do you want to accomplish?

If you want to go around the corners faster then you need downforce but increases in downforce tend to increase drag.
If you want to go faster in a straight line then you need to lower the drag or dramatically increase available hp.
It is all a compromise between downforce in the corners and straight line speed.

If you look at the seven, it tends to go against good aero design - it is relatively square front and rear end. These can cause large drag effects.

Most have a flat floor, unless you mean to include the engine bay/drive train.
A diffuser could help to tidy the flow under and around the rear end.
A front or rear wing could put a reasonable mount of downforce on the vehicle but ask yourself this, if you are looking to increase cornering speeds, how much downforce would you require and can you put up with the level of drag that it would induce?

Rod Ends - 7/2/12 at 09:05 PM

Donkeycock D8 270 RS - 7:14 around t'ring

JoelP - 7/2/12 at 09:11 PM

you could have adjustable wings, level off for straights, popped up in corners.

daniel mason - 7/2/12 at 09:16 PM

surely a rear wing isnt going to create a noticeable ammount of drag? when you look at square nose,rear arches, and general lack of aero.
i was just wondering as i go to the hill climbs and most run a rear wing, including some 7 type cars, and wondered if they actually anything to keep the relatively light rear end planted like the donkevoort

cerbera - 7/2/12 at 09:32 PM

This guy has fitted a rear wing to his MNR, check half way down the page.
I'm sure he is also a member on here.

[Edited on 7/2/12 by cerbera]

PAUL FISHER - 7/2/12 at 09:56 PM

I think they have got to make some difference, how much is debateable, but I supose bigger the spoiler the bigger the difference.
[img]
Rescued attachment RE-Xtreme_Ex_RE_WFf.jpg [/img]

daniel mason - 7/2/12 at 10:10 PM

after reading a bit of peters miata thread.it seems to make a bit of difference,but someone pointed out if you add wing to the rear you should also do a bit at the front to stabalise?

catman - 7/2/12 at 11:18 PM

i run a subtle front and rear spoiler/spliter on my tiger that i personally think dont ruin the clasic lines of a seven, deffo works as the scrutineers at silverstone made me take the rear wing off as it is attached to the cage which is not allowed. the result was massive over steer.

Ed

RK - 8/2/12 at 12:30 AM

I've got a wing I bought off Fleabay for about $100. Can't be anything but a big laugh, especially since I can't figure out how to mount it!

Bare - 8/2/12 at 03:59 AM

There was 'discussion' and eventually actual testing on this in Blatchat a while back.
Quick answer: a total waste of time coupled with it ruins the existing handling.
Want an Aero car ?.. buy one designed for the purpose.

onenastyviper - 8/2/12 at 06:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RK
I've got a wing I bought off Fleabay for about $100. Can't be anything but a big laugh, especially since I can't figure out how to mount it!

Big tip: mount it the right way around and up

Went to Stoneleigh show last year and did find a car with the aerofoil on backwards

zugs - 8/2/12 at 08:36 PM

I was at Mira wind tunnel testing last year and got the test details on a Caterham Super 7 if it helps.

Test configuration 2 up + full fuel tank , cooling system intake open , zero yaw , hood down,
side screens fitted.

Drag Coefficient = 0.655
Front Axle Lift = 0.283
Rear Axle Lift = -0.004
Projected Frontal Area = 1.33m

Basiclly drag is very high (ferrari 458 is about 0.36) down to front wheels ,mud guards and lights being so exposed.

daniel mason - 8/2/12 at 08:45 PM

what about a rear wing zugs? any info on if it creates decent downforce? cheers by the way

[Edited on 8/2/12 by daniel mason]

PSpirine - 8/2/12 at 09:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zugs
I was at Mira wind tunnel testing last year and got the test details on a Caterham Super 7 if it helps.

Test configuration 2 up + full fuel tank , cooling system intake open , zero yaw , hood down,
side screens fitted.

Drag Coefficient = 0.655
Front Axle Lift = 0.283
Rear Axle Lift = -0.004
Projected Frontal Area = 1.33m

Basiclly drag is very high (ferrari 458 is about 0.36) down to front wheels ,mud guards and lights being so exposed.

a Cd of 0.655?!?

Didn't realise it was THAT bad.. :O

zugs - 8/2/12 at 09:37 PM

A rear wing will create downforce but the position of it will be hard to place so it will work properly.
The drag penalty will be even higher which results in more power needed.
The frist thing i would do is a rear diffuser set at as close to 13 degrees as possible.
This will reduce the small amount of lift at the rear which will create downforce and help clean the air under the car
and as it leaves the car.
The front lower edge of a car(bottom of bumper) and top leading edge of rear are the most important areas to look
at as you are trying to keep the air attached to the car and leave as clean as possilbe.
If you are using a hard top you may find a gurney at the rear works without to much drag penalty.

Talkiet - 11/2/12 at 09:47 PM

Yes, wings can be done and do work - although as other have pointed out they can change the medium/high speed handling hugely...

Check out this example...

There's a link here with more details...

http://lotus7.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

He also has a crazy front end for it

Cheers - N

daniel mason - 11/2/12 at 09:59 PM

most were saying the drag from increasing aero would slow the car down. i would like a front and rear wing