Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
They are a mobile mappers i think, no rolling road.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
Looks like you are still favourite then
The intention was to take it to Baileys Performance, but there appears to be a Megasquirt specialist at Donnington. A hell of a lot nearer.
Anyone used them? http://www.ms2tuning.com/
[Edited on 24-2-15 by 40inches]
Do you realise that's lincs not the circuit?
quote:
Originally posted by wombat
Do you realise that's lincs not the circuit?
70 miles away from home as against 91 miles to Baileys 
Closer, but about the same 2hr travelling time.
The web site says that they will come to you!!! Wonder what that would cost?
They are a mobile mappers i think, no rolling road.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
They are a mobile mappers i think, no rolling road.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
They are a mobile mappers i think, no rolling road.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
Looks like you are still favourite then
, thanks, to be fair its is possible to map a car on the road (fuelling only) i used to do it that way before i bought the dyno, but it is
hard to optimize the ignition. quote:
I would be interested in knowing what they would have charged, i think i'm too cheap and plan to increase what i charge soon.
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
quote:
I would be interested in knowing what they would have charged, i think i'm too cheap and plan to increase what i charge soon.
No don't I need to get the Jag down to you too, and just can't find the garage time with the freezing weather and work to finish the install...
EFI Trial Fit 2
[Edited on 24/2/15 by r1_pete]
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
They are a mobile mappers i think, no rolling road.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
Looks like you are still favourite then
Good
I would be interested in knowing what they would have charged, i think i'm too cheap and plan to increase what i charge soon.
you can do ignition timing and fueling on the road but you need a good set of det cans and mslog viewer. it will be a good map but wont get that
last few horses out.
what you cant do on the open road is accurately and repeatably measure if the change you made to ignition or fuel added or reduced power once you get
to a 90-95% decent map.
with det cans you are basically just tuning trying to keep the engine away from detonation and using feel in the seat for power measurement.
A good example. Your peak torque at 3500rpm may be made at 25btdc but you may not experience detonation until 31btdc. on a rr you can find that by
taking measurements which show at what ignition advance torque peaks at and falls off at. With det cans on the road you basically take it up to the
point of detonation then wind it back a couple of deg to be safe, the negative to doing that is that the peak power is down at 25btdc but you may end
up at 27-28 which is just of peak!
more and more these days through good engine design peak performance is achieved well away from the detonation zone, so if you want every little bit
of performance out of that engine your gonna need a RR, on the other side of the coin if your happy with 90-95% with great drive-ability then road
tuning can be successful
i would say a good respected on road tuner dont pay more than £200ish. for a well respected tuner with a RR expect to pay £300+
a good tuner not only knows how to punch numbers into a pc until they get maximum oooompth they also understand mechanics and the physics of internal
combustion and engine design. The relationship between gas flow, peak cylinder pressure, rod/piston ratio, inlet/exhaust design, flame front,
cylinder gas scavenge, mechanical timing, fuel delivery/atomization, and stoic ratios are just a few of the concepts you need to get working together
in your head before you can be a really good tuner. After learning that foundation, years of experience comes into play.
properly understanding all of that including the math needs a good bit of intelligence. chances are if you meet a great tuner that fully understands
all of that and can produce great results means one of two things. They either already work for a professional race team or they undervalue
themselves and are under charging as they could be earning a lot more money using their brain for a higher paying career.
quote:
Originally posted by ashg
more and more these days through good engine design peak performance is achieved well away from the detonation zone, so if you want every little bit of performance out of that engine your gonna need a RR, on the other side of the coin if your happy with 90-95% with great drive-ability then road tuning can be successful
i would say a good respected on road tuner dont pay more than £200ish. for a well respected tuner with a RR expect to pay £300+
a good tuner not only knows how to punch numbers into a pc until they get maximum oooompth they also understand mechanics and the physics of internal combustion and engine design. The relationship between gas flow, peak cylinder pressure, rod/piston ratio, inlet/exhaust design, flame front, cylinder gas scavenge, mechanical timing, fuel delivery/atomization, and stoic ratios are just a few of the concepts you need to get working together in your head before you can be a really good tuner. After learning that foundation, years of experience comes into play.
properly understanding all of that including the math needs a good bit of intelligence. chances are if you meet a great tuner that fully understands all of that and can produce great results means one of two things. They either already work for a professional race team or they undervalue themselves and are under charging as they could be earning a lot more money using their brain for a higher paying career.
Fueling isn't that hard to do on the road, wide band/data logging etc and time.
Ignition isn't as easy, but on the other hand it's not hard to find or make an ignition map that is 90% in the ball park straight off for
most engines with some common sense. Engine feel and sound, back side dyno and det cans for fine tuning. The last 5 or 10% isn't really feasible
but then while the last fraction can be found on the rolling it's also effected by the tank of fuel and atmospheric conditions on the day so the
last 'bit' isn't a constant any way. On the rolling road an engine might be best with say 26.2 btdc/4250rpm at wot, 6 months later with
different weather and fuel...
After saying all that, unless it's part of the fun to someone learning something new and a personal challenge, the majority would be better off
using a good rolling road. Note the word 'good', plenty have no idea.
Ian
the way i like to say it is........ There are many rolling roads, not all of them good.
there are many operators of rolling roads, some are better than others !
my own MS road tune was 159bhp (all my own settings) an hour rolling road time with a pro gave me 165.1bhp we could add 9 degrees to the full advance with no pinking or det just power loss. the guy did it just to prove his point that in reality max power is not made near to det point.
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by baz-R
my own MS road tune was 159bhp (all my own settings) an hour rolling road time with a pro gave me 165.1bhp we could add 9 degrees to the full advance with no pinking or det just power loss. the guy did it just to prove his point that in reality max power is not made near to det point.
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
And mine! I'm getting there, wiring at the moment, still
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by baz-R
my own MS road tune was 159bhp (all my own settings) an hour rolling road time with a pro gave me 165.1bhp we could add 9 degrees to the full advance with no pinking or det just power loss. the guy did it just to prove his point that in reality max power is not made near to det point.
I couldn't agree more. This is why the "listen for det, then retard abit" is the wrong way to do it.
www.facebook.com/baileyperformance
www.baileyperformance.co.uk