Hello to those who know me, i have been a bit quiet on the forum these last few months. Busy with other things like children and house building!!

Anyway, i have rediscovered my enthusiasm for my Locost and want to revive her from the doldrums of the Lidls car cover in the garage!

My plan is to get a 2.0 blacktop Zetec and buy a Jenvey throttle body/Omex 600 ECU kit from Omex, approx £1800 i think (could be wrong though)

I am sick to death of messing about with Toyota electronics and getting nowhere, so the 4AGE is coming out and the Zetec is going in. Some might say that is a silly move, but to me the Zetec is much more available where i live and there are far more knowledgable people about with experience of Zetecs than Toyotas.

Tomorrow i am going to look at a 2.0 Mondeo LX, which i am told is the 130 PS variety and has 80,000 miles and "runs sweet".

What sort of thing should i be looking for with the Zetec and is there anything fundamentally wrong with what i am planning?

I have about £2000 disposable to get the Locost back going again. Basically i want a decent (non competition) car that i can jump in and drive comfortably anytime i get a chance.

Any advice or pointers greatly appreciated.

[Edited on 9/6/07 by albertz]

Mark,

Like i said in the U2U, you are a top man. I honestly dont think the Toyota is the way to go for me, if you seen the state of the "wiring" (i use the term loosley!) you would agree.

It is beyond saving, the engine is decent enough, but the whole wiring is a total mess. I just want to make a clean break and rip the Toyota out along with the wiring, then fit a new engine and loom. At that point i may consider tidying up the general car wiring.

The MS thing is great for you guys with a little electrical gumption but for clankies like me it is a nightmare and i just want to make my life simpler and more enjoyable. My hair is receding enough without me tearing it out in handfulls!!

Thanks again for the offer, but i think i'll be making this switch one way or another. What i need/want to know is what do i really need to know about the Zetec (especially for viewing this Mondeo) and what other kits are there as a viable alternative to the Omex/Jenvey setup? I wan just looking at Dunnells option 4 package for the Zetec, does anyone have any idea of the kit cost for that?

Thanks
Andrew

i hadnt even heard of megasquirt untill i joined locostbuilders, i have a guy local to me whos helped me with it and i have a nissan turbo engine up and running, its not that hard to get your head around to be honest.

if it was me i'd still use the toyota. you wont even need the original wires that you say are a mess.

[Edited on 9/6/07 by graememk]

albertz

I tend to agree with the other guys. You may find £2k won't cover the full engine change.

If I were you I'd be tempted to find a 'plug and play' kit for the 4age or spend a small part of your money on getting somebody to build a new loom for you.

Regards

Wyn

Toyota 4AGE is a sweet engine when running right . What's it going to cost you to let Mark have a look ? Probably a lot less than a Zetec installation?

Wyn,

The problem is that no-one local is interested in messing about with my b*lls up (except CalvinX who is about 200 mies away and i couldn't ask that of him, even though he has offered!).

The whole thing is just a mess and was shoddly installed, shoddly wired then even more shoddly upgraded to the new 4AGE engine. The car is just a progression of wiring disasters...

I feel like a clean break away from the Toyota. The thing is i live in the most Northerly county on mainland UK and there are not much choice of cars, the nearest proper breakers is Dyce, Aberdeenshire (200 miles). I cannot go for a 15 minute drive and pick my parts from a selection of cars. Toyotas are scarce here now, Fords however are more plentiful.

Thanks though.

Any other alternatives to the Jenvey/Omex setup? anyone else with this setup?

albertz,

Stick with the 4age. Im at the closing stages of jenvey and omex with a 4age. Not used any of the engines formmer life wires. I cant be that far away from you, so if you want to come by for a look give me a shout before you junk the toyota. If you do, bags your engine as a spare :-)

Albertz,

Is the rest of the car's loom OK?

Is the 4age mechanically installed in the car and the electrics the only problem?

If it is only the engine wiring loom that's causing you problems, going zetec purely for this reason alone seems false economy.

Mel@ Raw or Mischa @ Speedon (www.speedon.nl) or any other 4age conversant places should be able to provide you with a loom that will work (with 'bodies and Omex ECU if you wish) on a "plug it in" basis.

Here's just a suggestion to give you more options. How about fitting a "blacktop" 20V 4AGE engine. This engine is very free revving as the internals are factory lightened and balanced to a high degree. The engine comes with individual throttle bodies anyway. The service parts are readily avalable here as Fensport regularly import these very reliable engines.

Mel @ RAW could supply you a package including a wiring loom, OMEX 600 ECU and engine.

The owner of OMEX has a Striker fitted with one and has spent a lot of time mapping for both power (160BHP) and driveabilty/economy. So no expensive mapping required just a fine tune for your setup once installed.

The swap is pretty straight forward as I did exactly the same thing from a 16V 4AGE.

Nothing particularly wrong with a Zetec except your £2K budget will just about cover the parts but won't include all the little things involved with a change of engine.

Justin

If you do go with zetec and Jenvey then have a look at an Emerald ECU. They are very user friendly and comes with a number of good base maps or I can get you a copy of mine to get you going. The software is very "open" where as some makers lock down their ECUs to stop you changing configs.

Spyder cars who do the Lotus Elan conversions are a good source of info. Dunnel are very good but they do limit the changes you can make to the ECU.

Good luck.

All that said fitting the TBs and ECU to the zetec will be the same amount of work as any other engine....

Thanks very much for all the advice. I hear what you are all saying and its probably what i would say to someone else as well.

The thing is to keep the 4AGE and get the wiring etc sorted still requires a set of Jenveys and Omex (or another similar combination), therefore i am going to be spending the majority of the money anyway. For an extra couple of hundred i can get a decent 2.0 Zetec thrown in.

My 4AGE is joined to the type 9 box through a DIY bellhousing (part Toyota, part Ford), it is OK, but probably not perfect (photos in my archive). By changing to the Zetec obviously it would be a standard bellhousing.

The 4AGE that is currently installed has not really run yet, so the condition is not really known, i have had the cylinder head off and it seemed quite tight, but who knows. If it is a duffer then i am stuck because i have been searching the county for more 4AGEs and cannot find anything. That is basically my main concern. The Zetec will be available for ages yet, whereas the 4AGE is going to have to be sourced down south and therefore far more expensive.

I am quite set on the change to Ford now (i think...!!) and would really like advice on alternatives or experiences of the Jenvey/Omex combination, what is good, what is bad, installation and running issues etc. Expected power etc etc

Thanks again for the posts so far.

Cheers

Albertz

The only reason for my suggestions is that I went through a conversion to Zetec on Emerald (from Crossflow on points!) and that wasn't easy or cheap! I did make some chassis changes at the time which complicated it though.

Fitting of an Omex or equivalent system would be relatively simple. The only electrical connections usually required on this kind of kit are:

Ignition feed.
Decent earth.
Fuel pump (relay)

The rest is normally all built into their loom so it’s pretty simple!

The Emerald route would be great but you’d have to make up a new ECU loom and, whilst that’s not difficult, it just complicates things.

I’d offer to help you but if CalvinX is 200 miles away, I must be about 800 miles away!

Regards

Wyn

Don't forget other extras like exhaust, engine mounts etc etc. The costs add up.

Webcon or similar will do an off the shelf kit but it alone is going to use up most of your 2k

Omex/Jenvey is OK. there's a few people here running this combination on a few engines.

Emerald/Jenvey also works pretty well and the Emerald software is a doddle to use; new version has an automapping function.

I wish I live close to you, I wired my 4AGE with the factory ECU and I love it no mapping needed and it starts and runs like any road car.

I understand you want to go down the ford route but if you still have the factory toyota ecu if would be possible to get the engine running for freeish.

You might just want to pay someone to wire it for you. The standard ECU will give you 120 to 130bhp or more depending on your exhaust etc.

PS our 4AGE has done 117K and still love every minute.

PPS pay me I alwasy liked the idea of a trip up north.

PPPS If you woried about the bell housing spend the money you save on a proper one.

[Edited on 11/6/07 by rusty]

Hi, a bit related but you could buy my TB set up for a zetec.

Check the build I did here :-

http://www.fiestaturbo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=103676

I am selling the Management, loom, wideband. I even have a modified Stg2 head to match the ST170 inlet and 278 cams.

All for a good price, around half what you are expecting for the Jenvey etc.

Prices:-

GSXR1000 TBs - £350 (includes injectors, fuel reg etc)
Megasquirt - £200
Stg 2 Head - £300
Kent FZ2002 Cams - £230
New followers - £50
wideband - £100

I am selling the bits as I now have a new MG and no longer drive my fiesta. Never had any problems with the TBs, even in winter. Set them up myself with the wideband in under an hour.

Happy to answer any questions!

Asad

[Edited on 12/6/07 by Asad]

The gist I got was Toyota electrics rather than MS specifically.

I did actually make my MS plug and play i.e. it connects directly to the Ford Loom Plug.

Well my post is here, good luck with what route you take mate.

I would recommend the Jenvey/Emerald route, I use this to great effect. If you want prices & or advice give us a ring.
Dunnell are very good but very expensive & very secretive, with locked ecu,s, anyone can access the Emerald maps.
Cheers
Ian

[Edited on 19/6/07 by roadboy]

I think you've probably convinced yourself to switch to ford. But a couple of thoughts anyway.

The 4age is a great little engine. Don't forget that there are alternatives to throttle bodies. I used to run webber twin 40's with no problems at all. Less wiring to worry about etc.

If the cars wiring is as bad as you say, don't under estimate the amount of problem you may find when fitting the zetec! The 4age really isn't any harder to get running than any other engine. I used to run mine with a home made manifold, suzuki gsxr 600 throttle bodies and omex ecu.

If I were you I would stick with the 4age, get some throttle bodies with omex 600 ecu and also consider replacing car loom with a new one from RAW. They have a very good loom which is clearly labelled and is connected to 4age's every day. RAW can also load an engine map on to the ecu for you, so no problem about distance.

What ever you decide good luck and I hope you can enjoy the car soon.

Ben Smith.

Thanks for the continuing support and advice.

As Mark says, i have now ordered a new Zetec and kit from Raceline and the Total Ford System from Griffin Power. After weighing up the options i decided that this option suited my needs and budget best.

According to the literature i should get around 160BHP, this is more than enough for me just now and the plus points are that it is a new engine, relatively easy installation and with the Omex 600 and EFi i have scope for further development at a later date.

Regarding the Toyota, i made a big mistake during the initial installation by trying to simply remove the complete loom from the donor and cram it into the Locost. This and a combination of my electrical shortcomings and a modification or two have left me with a right mess and a non-runner. However i am fully aware that this could have happened with the Ford just as easily. I have nothing against the 4AGE generally, its just that i have run the course with it and am worried about the lack of locally available spares etc.

CalvinX (Mark) and Oliwb (Oli) have very kindly volunteered to come up to Caithness to help me out with the engine installation or whatever part i happen to be doing when they arrive

Most of the kit should arrive this week, but with committments etc i might not get to it immediately.

I am hoping to have a straightforward sprightly car that starts first time by the end of this.

Thanks again, will conclude this when I get my car back out the garage and start catching some dead flies!!