Hi Ed, All,

Same problem, different builder!

i'm trying to coax my 1.25 Zetec SE (1996) into life.

I have the wiring loom from the donor largely intact, except for some of the rear lighting. I do not appear to have an earth to the low power side of the starter relay. Does this go straight to earth, or does it go through any other switches/sensors please?

Hopefully this will get the engine turning at least!

Thanks

JC

Ecu switches the earth as part of the PAT's immobilizer.

Edit It wont upset the ecu if you bypass this function and wire the starter relay inhibitor diresct to earth instead of the ecu doing it

[Edited on 12/8/11 by big_wasa]

I have the clock wired up - the red LED isn't flashing. That indicates that PATS is happy, right?

It will flash nice and steady when armed. It will light up solid for a short while when powered up with the correct key then go out.

If you power it up with the wrong key/ no key then it will flash like the clapers.

By key I mean the paired RDIF chip.

http://youtu.be/pUbV0NPvx4M

OK, I'm getting nothing from mine at all - the engine/loom came from a Mk3 Fiesta - I am looking at a LED next to the clock - I hope it is the right one! Thanks for the helpful video

Yeh any Led will do. It needs 12v yours would get this from the clock then the ecu switches it. (switched earth).

My pin knowledge ie the ecu pin numbers and there functions are Mondeo bassed.

Did the ecu / loom / key come from the same car ?

Yes, all from the 1 car - been sat in a box for the last 5 years though with all the labels falling off!!

just a case of wiring it up then

'just'!

lol

Get your self a copy of autodata and a multi meter mate.

[Edited on 12/8/11 by big_wasa]

The clock is powered - I'll check the other electrics tomorrow. What is autodata? i am using the wiring diagram from the haynes manual which cunningly makes little reference to PATs!

Thanks for the help,

James

Hi James,

The '96 1.25 SE is the engine I first had in my Mojo and I've got quite a few notes from the ECU and wiring kicking about. A load of photos from my notebook are here: <<Link>>

I'd thoroughly recommend getting hold of the 'Ford TIS DVD' which has the wiring info for many Fords of this era, and is far more accurate than the Haynes manual. All the different wiring permutations of the PATs system is covered in there.

From memory, what big_wasa says about the led flashing is spot on, except mine didn't flash when 'armed'. I had a '96 Fiesta LX with no PAS, ABS, airbags, alarm etc if it makes any difference. Have you got the black plastic PATs sensor module next to the key wired up? Did you get the both the red and black keys?

Ed.

If you have the loom intact then it should be a case of plugging it back together. Just make sure that the earths from the ECU are connected to ground.

What has already been stated about the flashing LED is true, although mine does flash when armed. The Ford TIS CD does cover the wiring for it but as long as you have the keys and the black PATS reader then all should be well.

Make sure that you also have 12v to the ECU, the Haynes manual covers this quite well in the "Starting and Charging" and "Engine Management" sections.

Ed, Rich: Thanks - I only have the 1 key for the car, the black 1. I will check the ECU power etc and let you know how I get on.

Is the TIS CD readily available (none I can see on ebay!) or is it a dealer job? Also, is it a Windows programme, or a file that I can read on my Mac?

Thanks again, multimeter ready, off to the garage I go!!

Latter ecu's on the mondeo dont flash when idle. Like I say I only do mondeo's. 1.2 doesnt do it for me when there are 2.0 or bigger.

Tis is fords own software and isnt somthing you can buy legit But you can get an old copy on ebay or Torent downlaod. I find the autodata better. Again its profesional software that you wouldnt be able to buy new but there are old copies floating about.

OK, not sure what I have proved here however.....

I was not convinced that the fuel pump relay was clicking. Removed it and checked for volts across the pins - all 4 had 12v. This confused me as I was expecting 2 to have volts, 2 not to.

Removed the ecu, tried again, this time only 2 had voltage. Neither of the pins showed resistance when earthed.

Is this because the earth is switched by the ecu?

I have counted the pins on the ECU box - 104. The code is SLIM. Not all of the pins have connections. How are they numbered, is it left to right, all the way across, or does it go left to right down the left half, then restart at the right half? I have found 12v at some of the pins and have the pin outs previously posted on here.

As you can tell, there is a reason why I am not an electrician.....

The ecu switches earths it doesnt like to much current.

Be carfull where you prod your meter.

Yep so yours is the eec-v 104 pins. If you pull the black cover of the back you will see first and last in each row are numbered.

There will be one orange wire. This will be a perm' live for the memory. also known as KAM.

[Edited on 13/8/11 by big_wasa]

Awesome, thanks, back to the garage......

Have you looked at Ed's notes ? looks like all you need.

OK, making a little progress. Thanks wasa for the diagram - found a missing earth from the ecu.

PATS light now on for 60 seconds, then flashes 2, pause, then 1. I think this is Less than minimum keys programmed???

So, without the red key, am I bu*****d?

OK, engine now turns - I forgot that I had disconnected the starter motor when I was diagnosing stuff!!!!

No spark though.......investigating!

Are you using the Fiesta ignition key wiring as it came out of the donor? i.e you haven't started removing unnecessary wiring?

If so make sure that you have it wired correctly as per the Starting and Charging diagram in the Haynes manual.

Also make sure that you have 12v from the Green ignition to the ECU, Vt/Og if memory serves.

There is also a permanent 12v live from the central fuesbox (the one that was in the car) to the ECU via the green plug in the Aux fusebox (the one that was in the engine bay).

One key is fine... it's all I got with mine. You can get them copied (RFID tag and all) at most key cutters these days.

One key is all you need but you would need a red key on early models and two keys on latter cars to program any extra keys.

Sounds like your nearly there.

Make sur the engine is earthed.

The centre pin on the coil pack is 12v if you want to stick your meter on it.

Have 12v at all 3 connections on the coil pack.

The fuel pump is not running though - does the ECU stop the spark until it senses fuel pressure?
There is 12v at the pump but it looks like it is not earthed correctly - now looking for the earth for it!

Earth found, pump running, still no sparks!

Going to try to find/check the crankshaft and camshaft sensors as in the previous post, as well as the throttle position one.

I have found a few loose wires so there may be one that I have missed.....

OK, was checking the sensors and found a plug that was not quite fully clicked into place. Now have sparks!!!!!

Got to make dinner before full start attempt though...

Thats not on we want the brum brum vid

Ok, tried - no joy but fuel leaking from somewhere over garage floor! Not from pump to engine or vice versa. Have to leave it to ventilate overnight before investigating.

There is a rubber pipe coming from the fuel pressure regulator that is not connected to anything.

There is also a pipe (narrower bore, covered in a red cloth) that comes from the throttle body - on my car, it has been cut and nothing to connect to.

There is also a 'spare' connection on the throttle body that looks like a pipe should connect to it.

Having looked at a friends car a while ago, I connected the red cloth pipe to the regulator - that pipe now smells of fuel and i think was pouring fuel into the inlet.

Can anyone help with which goes where (it is in an awful place to see, let alone photo!)

James

The fuel has a pressurised supply through the white fittings and a low pressure return to the tank through a red fitting. Are you using the Fiesta fuel pump?

There is also a cannister purge in the emmisions systems - this is blocked off on mine but does leave an ECU error code.

I don't have/remember a red cloth pipe.

There's a bunch of air pipe fittings on the inlet manifold. One of these connects to the fuel pressure regulator and the others should all be blocked off as shown below.


Fuel and air pipes 1.25 Zetec

Sounds like your nearly there! We WILL need a video!

Sorry about the dodgy photo quality - I just ran out to the shed where this engine is stored and it's getting abit ddark out there!

Ed.

Found a slightly better pic of the blocked off air pipes.

Vacuum pipes

And of the fuel tank/pump connections:

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Well, my photo is even worse!

You can see the pipe that would go to the servo - that will be blocked off. (Top left pipe)

To the right of that is the one that goes to the red cloth pipe (not connected to anything) (Top right)

Underneath that is the line to the EGR thingy (bottom right)

To the left of that is the unconnected pipe (bottom left)

I looked at a friends car, which had the same configuration as yours, and therefore connected the top right pipe to the fuel pressure regulator - the pipe from the regulator was bigger and the red cloth pipe fitted inside it.

My regulator looks slightly different to yours. My fuel pump etc. is standard.

Naive question: I assume that the fuel pressure feed is a suction feed to the regulator? It smells like fuel was coming through it!

Thanks once again for the help and support and don't worry, my son is primed with the camcorder for the glorious moment!!!



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Description [/img]

Ok, my 'slightly better' photo is actually a 1.7 Puma Zetec engine so it doesn't have the extra metal pipe as shown in yours (bottom left), but in my 1st photo (1.25 Zetec SE) there is a black plastic blanking plug where this pipe goes so I guess you'll need to block this off too.

The regulator is vacuum operated from the air inlet, so if there is fuel in the vacuum hose then it is possible that your regulator is split/leaking and the vacuum is sucking the fuel through. It's probably easiest to pop into your local motorfactors and get a replacement if there is any doubt as fuel in the inlet can only be a bad thing!

I used TigerSeal PU adhesive to block the spare pipes on mine, but make sure you give it enough time to set before starting the engine as the vacuum produced can easily suck it into the manifold and create the sort of uncontrollable throttle racing that I had when I started my 1.7 for the first time! (video on YouTube here).

Sounds like you should have it running by lunchtime!

Ed.

[Edited on 13/8/11 by Madinventions]

Right, another idiot check!!! The fuel pressure regulator is the 'thing' in my second photo with the square brass bit and the union clipped hose, right?

If so, Ed, you are spot on as fuel is coming out of the hose attached to it. The only thing confusing me is that the hose is what appears to be Sytec fuel spec, rather than vacuum hose!

Looks like I'll have to but a new regulator then

Edit to add:

Cue hallelujah music etc!!!!!

The thingy described above is an adaptor that allows the fitting of an external (adjustable) fuel pressure regulator, hence the fuel spec hose and the mysterious red hose - they attached to the 'new' regulator. OK, so I still need a regulator but at least I understand what is going on!



[Edited on 14/8/11 by JC]

Excellent news! A new fuel regulator and a bit of pipe and you should be up and running. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

Ed.

Regulator arrived, engine started! Result!!! Thanks for the help and support guys.

Video linky

Excellent work! Great vid too