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Lithium Batteries
eddie99 - 21/11/12 at 11:18 PM

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone here runs a Lithium battery, looking at getting one for our next race car.

The one i am looking at weighs 1.5kg, so over 6kg saving over the required odyssey.

However more interested to see if anyone has had any problems and what battery have others used? CEC or BEC.

Seems a no brainer in terms of weight but need to be certain it wont let us down.

Thanks in advance.

wilkingj - 22/11/12 at 12:07 AM

An expensive way of saving 6kg!
Will 6Kg make that much difference in perofrmance?

eddie99 - 22/11/12 at 12:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
An expensive way of saving 6kg!
Will 6Kg make that much difference in perofrmance?



Well, its £100 more than a oddssey so 6kg for £100 is pretty reasonable in racing terms, and yep a couple of 6kgs all add up. This is on an out and out race car.

BobM - 22/11/12 at 07:06 AM

Dave Watson tried one in his RGB car Eddie. And threw it away.

I think it wasn't beefy enough, a bike ECU really needs its voltage and ISTR this was dropping quite a lot when cranking.

adithorp - 22/11/12 at 08:21 AM

Have you seen THIS thread?

russbost - 22/11/12 at 09:11 AM

I have absolute confidence in the Li Ion Polymer batteries I sell. I'm happy to supply on the basis that if it won't do the job you want it to then return to me (at your expense) in "as new" condition with the original packaging & I will refund in full less my P & P - that message is not just for Eddie, it goes for anyone on here.

Only qualifier I would put on that is if you're unsure of what you should be using then talk to me first, it's no use taking the smallest, cheapest battery in the range then asking it to start a Dodge Viper!

Here's the Link again to the video I've done, video is about halfway down the page now

MikeRJ - 22/11/12 at 11:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
I have absolute confidence in the Li Ion Polymer batteries I sell.


Lithium Iron (LiFePO4) surely? Lithium Polymer cells are not suitable for automotive applications.

russbost - 22/11/12 at 02:19 PM

Yes, sorry I think your nomenclature is correct & mine is wrong - I would point out I'm not a battery expert or a chemist/physicist!

However, I am a great believer in practical tests & "if it works then don't argue with it"!

I have just done some more testing, will post a video as soon as I can get it done, I have just taken the SMALLEST battery in the range the LIP004 which is intended for mopeds, scooters & small capacity motorbikes & used it to start a Furore fitted with a 1.6 4AGE engine, yes, that's right a battery weighing 430g, a 4.5m long starter lead cos the battery is at the front & the engine at the rear & it not only turns it over but starts the engine, what's more I disconnected the coil lead & cranked it for around 10 secs, by which time the battery was obviously struggling, reconnected the coil lead & it started first time.

So whether you're running a bike engine or a V8 or anything in between I reckon I have a battery which will do the job & save you anything up to around 20kg!

I'm just doing some drain down tests on the smallest of the range to see if I can get some sort of idea of Ah figures.

rodgling - 22/11/12 at 03:02 PM

The LiFePO4 batteries sound awesome. How long will they hold a charge, i.e. can you leave the car a few weeks or months and still start it? Any idea what sort of long-term life expectancy they have?

russbost - 22/11/12 at 03:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
The LiFePO4 batteries sound awesome. How long will they hold a charge, i.e. can you leave the car a few weeks or months and still start it? Any idea what sort of long-term life expectancy they have?


Holding charge whilst unused is a LOT better than lead acid, they have very little drain down from being left unused, I've got a couple of (slow moving!) batteries which I've had in stock since I started doing them about 3 months ago & they still show a full charge when tested.

The other thing re long term drain down is that they will recharge VERY quickly, the manufacturer says 90% full charge in 6 minutes, but personally I think that is somewhat optimistic, you would need a substantial charger to do it & I would not think good for battery life, but from my own experience I can confirm that they do recharge VERY quickly indeed, certainly within about 15 - 20 minutes to get a fairly complete charge into them

Long term life expectancy, you have to remember this is relatively new technology at least in this application - they are guaranteed for 12 months, they have an expected cycle life of around 2000 charge/discharge cycles, that's compared with lead acid around 200 - 300 charge discharge cycles. The manufacturer has been selling them without problem for over 2 years, my supplier has been selling them for getting on for a year now & has not had a single battery returned under warranty, for the longer term the simple answer is that no one actually knows as although you can cycle them many times in a lab, you can't reproduce the ageing process.

rodgling - 22/11/12 at 03:25 PM

They sound better and better... any idea if they would be OK starting a 3.2L straight 6? Presumably I'd want to be looking at the biggest one for that application?

russbost - 22/11/12 at 03:53 PM

From testing I've done so far I would think the LIP014B would be perfectly adequate for the job, but I've got nothing to make a direct comparison with, I'm certain the LIP020A would do the job no problem.

loggyboy - 22/11/12 at 04:00 PM

This confirmation should definately have been added to the previous discussion on these batteries as that also led to the impression they were LI-PO, not LiFePo4

[Edited on 22-11-12 by loggyboy]