Hi,

I have looked at the previous thread on imoblisers. i fancy the idea of a key pad imobliser, i have tried maplins for a system, to get the reply of hey, what you talking about??! have tried a few places but no good. I know sod all about electrics, fitting my new loom is about my limit! so any ideas?? any one done it and fancy making another?? obvisouly for cash!!!! what else have pepole done, dont realy want a battery isolator/ race style cut off switch. How about a switch in the low tension side of the ignition? i know that this works as ive done it before on my mini`s (God knows why any one would want to nick a mini!!) but what does the nice SVA inspector think??... find the switch, moblise car and drive off!! theres only so many places that you can hide a switch in a locost!!!

Cheers for your ideas....

Rob

Hows this for an idea, I've seen this before, very simple, but very effective. If you can get a wire from the (-) of your coil and somehow hide it(run it under the coil?).run this wire to say a toggle switch and to earth. If the (-) on the coil, runs to earth, theres no way of starting it.

Providing you can hide the wire and the switch!

darren

i put a switch in the lt ignition wiring it is mounted next to the steering top mount and when off lays against the mounting,i cant find it and i fitted it also an isolator switch is a good idea bridged with an in line fuse to keep parking lights etc on

hey bob how much would you be willing to pay for such an item???id only ask for cost of materials cause itd be quite interesting to do for myself

cheers

Cost of materials sounds good to me!! and P+P! i wouldnt have a clue how much something like that would cost??!!! do you? couldnt realy say how much i would pay...you name the price and i will say yes or no!!

I guess that you know a bit about electrics??? I know nothin about electrics.... i was thinking of somethin that would self activate when the ignition is turned off, isolating the LT side of the electrics, either making an earth or isolating the live to the coil?? also when activated possabily turn on a flashing LED?? I guess that this will also require a constant live?? what would happen if the Battery was disconected then reconected would this overried the key pad or bugger the system up so that even with the code you cant start the dam thing???? Possable??or am i just thinking of the impossable!!!??

Cheers

Bob

well i cant confess to being an expert but i know enough to get me through. let me just ponder this for a day or two, get some costings and ill try and get get back to you. (As macca knows thats not as easy as it sounds.)

cheers
fin

are you looking for the code to be programable. so you can change it when you want. if this is so then if a teef disconects battery to try to disable it, the code will revert to the original number.this is using a PIC microcontroller. is a programmable circuit a must have and if yes do you need it to retain your personal no'??

cheers
fin

I know for a fact that RING done keypad imobilisers about 9 years ago because i have one. It was about £12.00

It will imobilise one electrical circuit - fuel pump or coil etc.

It has a lock mode so that if you take the car somewhere for a valet or repairs then you don't have to worry about giving out the number.

It also gives you a delay before having to put the number in again once the ignition is off... i.e if you stall the car and have to turn the ignition on/off you dont have to re-enter the number. You get about 10 seconds i think.

They must surely still do a similar product.


Cheers


G

who? ring?

hmmm, £12 doubt id be able to make that with just the cost of materials.

found what i wanted, a picaxe microcontroller on a project board ready for some tinkering and programming.

[Edited on 13/1/03 by Findlay234]

Not to bothered a bout been able to programe it, so long as it stops a theving little git!! and is simple and cheap!!! think that i will have a look into the Ring product as well £12 not bad, if i find it i will let you know, prob get one at cost price.....thats if they are still been made!!

Cheers M8

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob da builderRing product as well £12 not bad, if i find it i will let you know,
Cheers M8

---

hey bob are you still looking for this immobiliser. ive written the code into the assembler software ready for downloading into the microcontroler chip. what ive coded into it is:
, when actively immobilising a red LED is on.
press in the correct 4 digit code, the immobilser will connect up an electrical circuit, can be ignition or fuel pump and a green LED will light up.
if the wrong code is put in it will just reset to no code input.
once the immobiliser is active youll get 30 second to switch on the engine. while engine is on you can hold down the asterysk button to get the valet service. to switch off valet service you have to have the engine off and the car key out.
when switching off the car normally you will get a ten second pause before the the circuit will be immobilised. so you can restart if you stalled.the red LED will come back on.
as you can see this works much like the £12 imob.

keypad can be placed almost anywhere. anyone else interested in one of these, or would like some mods to it???

cheers
fin

[Edited on 20/1/03 by Findlay234]

ive pretty much sorted out the design of the circuit now.

before i go any further i want to know whether people are still interested in one of these keypad immobilisers?? its not going to be worth the development time, right now, if its only for myself, i can do it later on. anyway a rough estimate of cost, looking at the parts im gonna buy, will be a max of £25. thats a max, if it goes any higher ill stop developement. itll probably be lower but im just giving you a worst case scenario so i dont upset people.

i know its not quite £12 but then im not buying in bulk!

are there still takers or am i wasting my time?

cheers
fin

il take one! for £25 u cant really go wrong can you?

also will i be able to wire up an alarm to this? I ask because after starting to take my donor car apart last night i foinf an alarm that has all the wires attached but isnt wired in! BONUS! LOL

hi m8
Sorry i havent got back to you havent had internet access but im now bac!
yeah, ill have one at £25! sounds spot on for what i want!! couldnt get one of the ring products, no one seams to have heard of them!!prop out of production!

give me a shout how you getting on....

Cheers m8

Bob

May well be interested too. There's a chap on another list fitted one with a sensor on a key-ring to touch onto a socket on the dash. Gonna find out more and let you know.....

Those chaps on the Yahoo BEC site came up with this:

http://www.abacuscaralarms.co.uk/selca/mc2.htm

Looks the nuts to me, though £40 more...

[Edited on 27/1/03 by Jasper]

We will talk soon about this one mate

quote:

---

Originally posted by auzziejim
il take one! for £25 u cant really go wrong can you?

---

the one ive got my eye on is on the maplin website, claims its out of stock but will have to see, if it is then ill be getting one similar if possible. just the basic kypad.

Picked up our Fireblade engine yesterday and the lovely bloke we got it from was good enough to leave £300 worth of Datatool alarm and imobiliser attached to the loom. Even gave me the remote fob for it!

Sorry this is of no help to anyone here, but its nice to have a little luck every now and then!

some get all the luck.............

well getting through this imob thing, its taking much longer than i thought cause ive had to do work and strip my donors..... itll be done soon tho. then needs testing.... who wants to let me use their car a guinea pig????

cheers
fin

quote:

---

Originally posted by Findlay234
some get all the luck.............

well getting through this imob thing, its taking much longer than i thought cause ive had to do work and strip my donors..... itll be done soon tho. then needs testing.... who wants to let me use their car a guinea pig????

cheers
fin

---

Also would love to! But......not that far and have just moved house so without garage for a while..just dug the pit in the new garage and buggered me back in the process! not going to be till late summer / autum till i can be the guine pig but if you dont mind waiting.......

Cheers,

Rob

findley.

hi mate,

just wondering if you have had a chance to play with the imobliser yet......? cheers mate, The money is still waiting for you!! have just fin uni so im ready to work on my car againe.

cheers Rob

If you still need a car to test it on I'm just sorting out my wiring. Looks like an explosion in a spaghetti factory at the moment - your welcome to come round plug it in and test it. I'm not too far away from Bucks

Cheers for the new incentive guys, ive been working in swizerland for the last month so havent been able to do anything. sorry its taken so long, just need to etch the circuit board and then plug everything in really.

If we are still chatting about immobilisers, im going to use a Scorpion transponder immobiliser, has a reciever loop placed behind the trim where the ign key goes in, has a little key fob which hangs on your key ring, when you insert the key and switch the ign on the immobiliser reads the key fob and disarms the system! very simple and is thatcham aproved to boot! It has all black wiring to confuse the prospective theif and cuts into the cranking circuit and the coil feed or fuel pump supply. It has a little L.E.D. to show when its armed too! Its the same immobiliser that is fitted to most Mercades cars that come off the production line at the moment (the chip is hidden inside the ign key) so if its good enough for them its good enough for my Tiger. But i would say that because i am a Scorpion dealer ha ha. If any of you builders want one I can supply at discount prices, email me and let me know.
p.s. good luck with the touch key project, sounds interesting.

Being able to supply it cheap is good - but - What about the installation certificate that insurance companies want to prove it was fitted by a recognised professional and not joe public? I've always been up for installing one myself but hav'nt due to this issue.

a valid point there mr g.id like to have a anti theft system fitted to my car simular to the ones ive seen in south africa.......when the thief trys to steal it ,they get smoked by flame throwers out the side of the car.there take that thief...lol

Fin,

Forgive my ignorance and lack of electrical expertise, but what would there be to stop a wannabe theif just bridging across the keypad and hot wiring the circuit? or does it not work like that?

Cheers,

Ned.

Hi all

Just my 2 worth but pending on the PIC you are using for this immobiliser it may well have some non volatile memory for user variables (I would say all of them but there are hundreds and I only have experience with the devices towards the top end of the range).

This non volatile memory is very easy to use all you do is supply the address you wish to read/Wright to and the data. If any one is interested I can give you some C functions for doing this alternately if you use assembly for your pic code I am sure there are some examples on the web and falling that I am sure that the microchip manual for the particular PIC will tell how to do it. (sorry my assembly is a bit rusty)

non volatile memory = memory whose contence is not lost when power is removed

with regards to the installation certificate, i was just offering another solution to car security, its not like there will be a certificate that can be sent with the touch pad immob is there!

Anyway, if any of you are in surrey and want one fitted i can do it for you so that you have a certificate to send off, normal price for a transponder system is £145 fitted but i can supply and install to people on this site (providing you are in surrey or can get to me) for £105 if anyone is interested? this is a legit offer too!

Ok, ned, theoretically yes, a tea-leaf could plug in a 6v battery into the wires that go between keypad and relay. The plan is to have a ribbon cable coming out the back, most of the wires going nowhere, so it deters a thief from trying to hot wire it with so many wires. Itl be safer than a kill switch, but not as safe as a thatcham approved alarm, if you want one of those you can pay the £100, plus £100 for installation.... The sva require you to have some form of immobilisation (they dont ask you to have it thatcham installed), this is a cost effect step up from a kill switch.

If the battery is disconnected the memory will remain intact and the the immobiliser will just reset when powered on again, as though nothing happened. The relay is powered by the keypad so with power off it wont work. And BTW you should be able to disarm more than one circuit if you wanted(with more relays), so making the job for the thief harder.

The bottom line is that where theres a will theres a way. Nothing will stop the most determined thief, not the thatcham cat1's or the flamethrower (now illegal, even in South Africa BTW).

If you have anymore questions then just ask.

Findley.

Hi Mate, Im still interested in your key pad, all that im interested in is keepin Mr. SVA happy!! im not planning on keeping may car unattended for long and i just want a `trick` feature!! anyway if some one realy wants my locost then imobliser or not aint gonna stop them!! to the point im off to the alps mountaineering for the summer, im back in september and will be doing my electrics then so i will be the guinnea pig if need be or if not ill be paying cash for one!!

leave me a post on the foroum or email me with details etc.... will be in contact september time..

Happy building

Bob

Roge-o sir. Have an excellent time, just think of us slaving away in sunny england

Right, a decision. In light of Neds words I wanted to make the system more tea-leaf proof, Im thinking of keeping the chip and the relay away from the keypad, in their own box which can be hidden away from sight. The only wires that the thief could tamper with would be those going to the keypad. The way the signal goes to and from the keypad, it would be harder to hot wire than to try and guess the code. Here comes the decision part..... for those of you who have expressed an interest, would you want the keypad in a little box that you can mount somewhere with velcro or such like or would you want to have it poking through the surface of your dash or tunnel. Its just that its quite difficult to find a box of the right size, that can be easily waterproofed as well.

Cheers mate, im sure that i will have a gud time!! personally i would perfere if it was not in a box then i can mount it into my tunnel for the unique look!!!

keep one with my name on till september!!!!

cheers

bob.

Mate that helps so much, finding a suitable small plastic box is hell but if you and others just want the keypad then thats great, itll look as though the car was built with it in and its not just an after thought.

BTW heres the maplin website showing the keypad ill be getting for the kit (the one im using at the mo is one i had before)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search/results.asp?hiddId=030606083604913&Criteria=keypad&CartID=030606083604913

The second one down! metal keys would be nice but its a tad pricey

I have been looking for just such an item recently, the only one I could find is at the following link.....

http://www.astrogen.com/sc2001.htm

Certainly I would be very interested in your device. and just for my tupenny worth - I would like to see a seperate keypad that i could integrate into my dash or tunnel.

Look forward to seeing the finnished item....

findlay.

Me again.... if it is not a problem to you can you build mine with a metal key pad, well assuming that they are only £4 or so....more, i dont mind paying a little more.... if its a problem then dont worry the plastic keypad will be great, cheers.

im on a friends computer now, wont have internet access till september now so gud luck and i will be in contact when im back.

just a thourght....are you going donnington?? from memory its bout 15th sept ish well im back then and will be going so maybe pick it up from you then!???

cheers for your time mate, take it easy, have a good summer building!

Just a quick reminder if people need one now and can't wait:

http://www.abacuscaralarms.co.uk/selca/mc2.htm

Cost me about £60, easy to install, lots of black wires to confuse theives, works loverly, cuts 2 circuits, flasing LED, and touch key fob.

Jasper, that link gives a "moved page" page. Can you post another link or give "directions" from their home page?

Sorry chaps - looks like they no longer do them - I seem to remember the price was good cos he didn't have many left.

Is this the immobiliser / web page?

http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarms/immobilisers/apollo2002.htm

£45 sounds reasonable, but I'm also interested in the home brewed version.

Russell

glad someone woke this thread up so I saw it.. did any of these PIC-based immobilisers get built?

I am thinking of building my own now, I have some experience with PICs and electronics.. RS sells what sounds like a nice LED backlit keypad. could be quite sexy.

Findlay,

are we on then?

I'd also opt for the metal keypad and pay the extra fiver.

What sort of timescales are we looking at for this and which circuits will need to be re-routed to the black box to get it running. I'm harness building (actually stripping and rewiring) over the next couple of weeks so this is quite timely for me.

Regards
Russel

People seem to like the metal keypad dont they? Right then, as ive just looked at the sva manual..... doh, loadsa regs on electronic immobilisers. Its got to be two circuits that it immobilises. So make some provision in the ignition circuit and the fuel pump circuit. Or any other circuit for that matter, as long as it doesnt overload the relay current rating, which i dont know yet BTW as i havent got that far.

As for timescales, well im being sent off to switzerland again next week so thatl slow me down but theoretically if i put the effort in i could get it done in a few weeks.

great - count me in - and I also prefer the metal keypad

The extra few quid for the metal keypad seems worth it IMO.

Mr Findlay234, you are a brave man! I used to build all sorts of stuff like this for friends, people at work etc. but it took far too much of my time in the end (plus I program realtime embedded systems for living, don't want to do it at home as well!)

Anyway, if you are after a limited run of PCB's (rather than etching all of them yourself), I know several people that have used Olimex (http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html) for prototype PCB's. They are easily the cheapest around ($21 for 160mm x 100mm with tinned tracks, solder resist and silk screen), and they will panelise small PCB's for you. Only downside is you have to FAX your order to them.

Cheers for the info mike, ill look into it. On the subject of taking too much time, well im definately doing this as second project to the car, sorry to those of you who want one, i probably could have got the protoype done already if id dropped the rest of my life.

Cheers

I had a digital keypad imobiliser in my old saxo.

it was a 98 reg.

It ahd all sorts of functions. Might be to complicated. as it controlled the ECU.

To much work!

Any progress/update on this Findlay234 ??

Hi Findlay

how you doing m8.
well im back off my holiday and building again!! just wondering how the imobliser is doing??? if its complete are you going to donnington? i will be there on the sunday maybe meet up with the cash?? will email you my contact details.

Take it easy mate,,
rob

Hi guys, sorry just got back from a nice long trip to thailand and off to uni in two days so dont have the imob ready but hope to take it to uni and get some of the boffs to help me get over a couple of problems ive been having. Mainly due to suitable circuit damping, im worried about interference when in a car. Im doing mechanical engineering so there should be a fair amount of people willing to help, also means i wont be able to do anything on the car at the moment.

Cheers.

Find and OLD Mazda Rx 7 They have a simple imobiliers that works off of a key fob that attaches to the key ring. This just has to be present on the keyring ... No touching it agains contacts etc.

Black box under dash and a aeiral up into column.

Couple of earths to sensors or door switches etc.

Whole system made by thatch I think.

try this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2 436400162&category=15329
got one on mine with the sensor on the tunnel , so i just put my keys in my pocket - sit in the car and the immobilser disarms. And it passed sva with no ignition key.

Similar principle to the Rx7 one. Except I got mime for a fiver and not £50 but atleast you get the wiring diagram.

And thatcham cat 2 approval

Do you need the offical bit of paper saying CAT 2 approved.

I thought they were only approved if fitted by a recognised installer not by DIY.

SVA just wants some form of anti theft device, it can be a concealed switch.
It came with the certificate in the box just needing to be filled out, and it was fitted as standard by the vehicle manufacturer, (not some blithering idiot with a soldering iron and some sticky tape - oh hang on it was fitted by a blithering idiot , me!)

I have found a much less expensive and stealthier immobiliser that appears to be very effective. It uses a hidden magenetic reed switch and a magnet as the key technology.

This was published December 1, 1998 in the AutoSpeed Magazine. (Aus)

Here's some text from that article:

quote:

---

If wiring up a couple of relays doesn't worry you and you can handle a soldering iron and a multimeter, this immobiliser is for you.

You only need a:


-12 volt heavy duty car relay;
-12 volt Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) relay;
-12 volt flashing LED;
-reed switch that closes when a magnet is nearby;
-pushbutton that opens when pushed;
-broken remote from a car alarm;
-and a magnet.

Most of these bits and pieces you can get from an electronics shop.

Like all immobilisers, this one shuts down the car's EFI or ignition system. But what's different about ours is that if the thief steals your keys (with the remote control attached), he still can't drive away with your car. That makes it just about unique!

So how does it work?

The guts of the remote transmitter case are removed and the magnet is placed inside. The circular magnet from a tiny speaker has been used here. When you enter the car, you casually swipe the transmitter case past a special place within the car's cabin. This place might be on the centre console, a part of the dashboard - pretty well anywhere. Hidden behind the area that you swipe is the reed switch - a switch that is sensitive to magnetic fields. The swiping triggers the reed switch that in turn switches off the immobiliser.

Because the reed switch is located behind the plastic of the dash or centre console, there's nothing to see. The swiping movement can be quite natural - part of your hand movement as you put on your seatbelt or settle yourself in the seat. That means that even if a potential thief is watching you closely, he doesn't get any clues.The remote (at right) triggers the reed switch (left) whenever it comes close. Only you know the location of the reed switch!

When you want to arm the immobiliser, you press the button. The pushbutton can be in complete view - the thief gains nothing by ripping it out and either disconnecting the wires or bridging them. When you press the button, the on-dash LED starts to flash, indicating the car is now immobilised. It also reminds you to switch off the system when you re-enter the car.

---

the link won't work without you adding the h to the start of the address.

save you the effort...


http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_0059/cms/article.html

aw shite!

Gotta test those URls

a good article though! worth the shuffle...!

might try getting the old head round it one day!

Just made one of the relay type/ reed switch immoblisers. Superb!!! easy to make and works a treat! if i think on i will put on a copy of the wireing diagaram and my own which makes things even easier... even i understood it and i HATE electrics!!! cant take the credit, mate in the pup drew it!!!
well worth the £15 or so that i cost to make, and thats with all new bits!

take it easy,
rob