Ferrari once again bringing F1 into disrepute
Vettel never caught either Ferrari's
Boring B******s !
Alonso having trouble finding someone to shake his hand in parc ferme
Obvious team orders if you ask me.
very bad both sould be penalised and there team
When will someone grow a pair and put an end to this!
Sure, they can come up with a 'story', but surely its time for the FIA to tell them tough and set an example!
Alonso is Billynomates on the podium too...
Virtually no disguise on the team orders, Massa making the pass very obvious too. I think there's more to come on this...
"Ferrari disgraceful"
"Both cars should be excluded"
Silverstone - Alonso would not have got a penalty if he had just given the place back to Kubica straight away,as he passed of the circuit. The bike
racers do it all the time.
Alonso completely insulting F1 fans intelligence.
If he was so much faster , he should have overtaken like Hamilton. Kobayashi.
Well, having watched that post match race interview, then there really is no excuse for Ferrari not being disqualified!
A great result for Ferrari? Crap result for the fans, Glad I didn't pay to see that.
More insulting b*******!, has no one got any balls these days...........
FIA and dummy spitting comes to mind.
It will be interesting only, depending on what the stewards do or don't do about it.
edit bit :-
It just seems so funny how ALL the ferrari employees seem to be reading from the same crib sheet.
[Edited on 25/7/10 by jollygreengiant]
looks like been the most interesting bit of today's race.....................
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
More insulting b*******!, has no one got any balls these days...........
Remind me - weren't Lewis/McLaren reprimanded/fined/docked points for lying???
So obviously Ferrari/Alonso/Massa were all telling the perfect truth today???
Remind me again who is new head of FIA - I remember - it's Jean Todt,....................now if only I could remember his previous employer -
must have been a sewage works because something stinks round here!
Would be interesting to see the telemetry from Massas car at the overtake - guess his foot must have slipped off the throttle - happens to me all the
time - Oh! wait - it's never happened to me ...............
looks like YET AGAIN we are going to see FIA doublle standards.
Alonso was quicker??? Then he should have been able to pass
"this is ridiculous"???? whinge whinge I cannot get past
"Alonso is quicker do you understand?"
well massa would be thick not to because the world viewing public all did.
And the final" sorry".
Race rigging deprives the betting public of a true result this is why in horse racing the penaltis are so high.
Many teams have paid the price in the past BUT i fear on this occasion justice will not be done AGAIN
Not singling out Rob Smedley, more the drivers.
They become a bit tarnished for not standing up against this stuff, Massa, Barrichello,Coulthard.
Move over Senna ,Prost is coming through? I don't think so..........
Move over Mansell , Piquet is coming through? I don't think so
[Edited on 25/7/10 by Surrey Dave]
i wonder if anyone had money on alonso to win
... and pity the poor sods who had money on Massa to win!
Curently under stewards investigation
I turned on when they were going on to the podium. When I seen Alonso put on the 1st place hat I jokingly said "I wonder how he cheated this
time".
How odd that that was my first thought....
And yet I was right....
Fined £100k, but result stands... what a load of...
Right!! , I definitely won't be buying a Ferrari now!
So it looks like the stewards havn't got any gonads either and have passed the buck upwards according to the FIA official press release on their
web site.
"Following their controversial one-two result at the German Grand Prix, Ferrari have been fined US$100,000 by the FIA after race stewards deemed
they had breached sporting regulations. The case has also been referred to the World Motor Sport Council."
If it is a breech then where is the continuity of punishment, or cant they stand whingonso's whining either. Or is it something else. Im sorry I
cant possibly comment while my arm is being twisted behind my back.
I'm sure they'd be happy to pay £100K to win each race, probably cheaper than running the car!
Kick'em out, next three races, they wouldn't do it again, nor would anyone else!
here here.
exactly ^^
The stewards have also reffered it to the world motorsport council --- which puts Jean Todt in a very awkward position.
My guess is Rob Smedeley must be truly p****** with Ferrari the only thing keeping him at Maranello is loyalty to his driver.
I would not be too surprised if he walks.
It's a travelling circus.
Why do you watch it?
Team Orders happen all the time. Didn't you hear DC saying this? It is naive and hypocritical for anyone to criticise Ferrari unless they are
also going to criticise pretty much every other successful team and driver on the grid.
KOV let HAM through 2 years ago at the same circuit for example. Oh but that was okay because they were more subtle and KOV just 'happened'
to run slightly wide at a hairpin? If you accept this then you are either gullible or hypocritical !
And then there was 'Wing-gate' last week with Webber having his wing taken off and given to Vettel. This gifted pole position to Vettel if
you look at the time difference and should have therefore gifted him the race had Vettel not screwed up. Ironic that Horner was the first to criticise
Ferrari... Pot, Kettle, Black...
Alonso WOULD have attacked Massa in the last 20 laps of the race if he had not moved over. Why do you think he backed off for a while? He was saving
fuel and tyres ready for a late charge. He has done this many times before. There is no point in sitting 0.6 sec behind someone for 40 laps as it just
overheats everything and ruins your tyres. Once he decided to attack he cruised up to Massa at 0.5 seconds per lap again.
Alonso was 0.5 sec per lap faster all weekend compared to Massa. Not enough for a clean overtake so he would have had to force a mistake from Massa in
order to pass. He almost did this early on in the race but Massa cut back across him to close the door. Could easily have been a Red Bull moment...
The problem with forcing a mistake is that it can all end easily in tears because the drivers are no longer in full control.
Ferrari knew that Alonso would not back off and clearly took the decision to secure good team points (which they richly deserved by the way) and
informed Massa that Alonso was faster. Massa understood that for the good of the team he had to move over. Ferrari HAD TO have a good result this
weekend or they could kiss goodbye to the 2010 season. It may not be the closing stages of the season yet, when these team order situations normally
arise, but for Ferrari it might as well have been. If the two cars had collided then they would probably have just started to focus on 2011 which
would have deprived us all of the fight between them and RB/McLaren in the next few months.
Team orders do happen, we all know this so why pretend that we are all shocked at this result? They should review the rules and make them legal
because they cannot be policed effectively, or at least consistently and it seems that the more sneaky you are with your team orders the better. We
should reward transparency, not subterfuge!!
Great race for Ferrari and Alonso!
[Edited on 25/7/2010 by craig1410]
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
My guess is Rob Smedeley must be truly p****** with Ferrari the only thing keeping him at Maranello is loyalty to his driver.
I would not be too surprised if he walks.
"Team Orders happen all the time. Didn't you hear DC saying this? It is naive and hypocritical for anyone to criticise Ferrari unless they
are also going to criticise pretty much every other successful team and driver on the grid.
KOV let HAM through 2 years ago at the same circuit for example. Oh but that was okay because they were more subtle and KOV just 'happened'
to run slightly wide at a hairpin? If you accept this then you are either gullible or hypocritical !
And then there was 'Wing-gate' last week with Webber having his wing taken off and given to Vettel. This gifted pole position to Vettel if
you look at the time difference and should have therefore gifted him the race had Vettel not screwed up. Ironic that Horner was the first to criticise
Ferrari... Pot, Kettle, Black...
Alonso WOULD have attacked Massa in the last 20 laps of the race if he had not moved over. Why do you think he backed off for a while? He was saving
fuel and tyres ready for a late charge. He has done this many times before. There is no point in sitting 0.6 sec behind someone for 40 laps as it just
overheats everything and ruins your tyres. Once he decided to attack he cruised up to Massa at 0.5 seconds per lap again.
Alonso was 0.5 sec per lap faster all weekend compared to Massa. Not enough for a clean overtake so he would have had to force a mistake from Massa in
order to pass. He almost did this early on in the race but Massa cut back across him to close the door. Could easily have been a Red Bull moment...
The problem with forcing a mistake is that it can all end easily in tears because the drivers are no longer in full control.
Ferrari knew that Alonso would not back off and clearly took the decision to secure good team points (which they richly deserved by the way) and
informed Massa that Alonso was faster. Massa understood that for the good of the team he had to move over. Ferrari HAD TO have a good result this
weekend or they could kiss goodbye to the 2010 season. It may not be the closing stages of the season yet, when these team order situations normally
arise, but for Ferrari it might as well have been. If the two cars had collided then they would probably have just started to focus on 2011 which
would have deprived us all of the fight between them and RB/McLaren in the next few months.
Team orders do happen, we all know this so why pretend that we are all shocked at this result? They should review the rules and make them legal
because they cannot be policed effectively, or at least consistently and it seems that the more sneaky you are with your team orders the better. We
should reward transparency, not subterfuge!!
Great race for Ferrari and Alonso! "
Which part of "It is now illegal under current rules" are you struggling with???
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"Team Orders happen all the time. Didn't you hear DC saying this? It is naive and hypocritical for anyone to criticise Ferrari unless they are also going to criticise pretty much every other successful team and driver on the grid.
KOV let HAM through 2 years ago at the same circuit for example. Oh but that was okay because they were more subtle and KOV just 'happened' to run slightly wide at a hairpin? If you accept this then you are either gullible or hypocritical !
And then there was 'Wing-gate' last week with Webber having his wing taken off and given to Vettel. This gifted pole position to Vettel if you look at the time difference and should have therefore gifted him the race had Vettel not screwed up. Ironic that Horner was the first to criticise Ferrari... Pot, Kettle, Black...
Alonso WOULD have attacked Massa in the last 20 laps of the race if he had not moved over. Why do you think he backed off for a while? He was saving fuel and tyres ready for a late charge. He has done this many times before. There is no point in sitting 0.6 sec behind someone for 40 laps as it just overheats everything and ruins your tyres. Once he decided to attack he cruised up to Massa at 0.5 seconds per lap again.
Alonso was 0.5 sec per lap faster all weekend compared to Massa. Not enough for a clean overtake so he would have had to force a mistake from Massa in order to pass. He almost did this early on in the race but Massa cut back across him to close the door. Could easily have been a Red Bull moment... The problem with forcing a mistake is that it can all end easily in tears because the drivers are no longer in full control.
Ferrari knew that Alonso would not back off and clearly took the decision to secure good team points (which they richly deserved by the way) and informed Massa that Alonso was faster. Massa understood that for the good of the team he had to move over. Ferrari HAD TO have a good result this weekend or they could kiss goodbye to the 2010 season. It may not be the closing stages of the season yet, when these team order situations normally arise, but for Ferrari it might as well have been. If the two cars had collided then they would probably have just started to focus on 2011 which would have deprived us all of the fight between them and RB/McLaren in the next few months.
Team orders do happen, we all know this so why pretend that we are all shocked at this result? They should review the rules and make them legal because they cannot be policed effectively, or at least consistently and it seems that the more sneaky you are with your team orders the better. We should reward transparency, not subterfuge!!
Great race for Ferrari and Alonso! "
Which part of "It is now illegal under current rules" are you struggling with???
http://sniffpetrol.com/2010/07/26/ferrari-back-on-form/
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/ferrari-employ-regency-gentlemen-201007262945/
Wonder what their reply would have been if Massa had replied over the radio
"He's faster is he! Then I shall drive like the wind and defend the position with every fibre of my being"
Or
"No he isn't! By the very fact that he is BEHIND ME his average speed over the duration of the race must be lower than mine. Ergo, whilst
he may occasionally have a higher peak speed, his overall performance is less than mine, as his wife told me last night!"
or even, 'no probs, i'll get me toe down'
Vettel showed once again he is not a world champion and fluffed the start again
alonso did not win but was worthy of it none the less
I must say that I feel it's high time that everyone accepts that in the top formulas it's the team owners and sponsors that put their
reputation and cash on the line - especially if sales depend on winning the championship - and as such they should have every right to dictate
finishing order in their teams.
Drivers should realise that they are just overpaid employees and if they want the personal glamour then they should fund their own rides.
Gamblers should realise the reality of the situation and if they want to bet on the lowest point driver in the team then that's their choice and
they shouldn't squeal when team orders act against them, also they should ensure the odds reflect the reality.
The rules against team orders are nothing but greed on behalf of the GP owners to ensure TV viewers but they forget that without the teams there would
be no event - formula racing at that level becomes a team sport as soon as each team is allowed more than one entry so we should all view it as such.
If you don't want it to be a team sport only allow one car per team to enter.
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Team Orders happen all the time. Didn't you hear DC saying this? It is naive and hypocritical for anyone to criticise Ferrari unless they are also going to criticise pretty much every other successful team and driver on the grid.
KOV let HAM through 2 years ago at the same circuit for example. Oh but that was okay because they were more subtle and KOV just 'happened' to run slightly wide at a hairpin? If you accept this then you are either gullible or hypocritical !
And then there was 'Wing-gate' last week with Webber having his wing taken off and given to Vettel. This gifted pole position to Vettel if you look at the time difference and should have therefore gifted him the race had Vettel not screwed up. Ironic that Horner was the first to criticise Ferrari... Pot, Kettle, Black...
Alonso WOULD have attacked Massa in the last 20 laps of the race if he had not moved over. Why do you think he backed off for a while? He was saving fuel and tyres ready for a late charge. He has done this many times before. There is no point in sitting 0.6 sec behind someone for 40 laps as it just overheats everything and ruins your tyres. Once he decided to attack he cruised up to Massa at 0.5 seconds per lap again.
Alonso was 0.5 sec per lap faster all weekend compared to Massa. Not enough for a clean overtake so he would have had to force a mistake from Massa in order to pass. He almost did this early on in the race but Massa cut back across him to close the door. Could easily have been a Red Bull moment... The problem with forcing a mistake is that it can all end easily in tears because the drivers are no longer in full control.
Ferrari knew that Alonso would not back off and clearly took the decision to secure good team points (which they richly deserved by the way) and informed Massa that Alonso was faster. Massa understood that for the good of the team he had to move over. Ferrari HAD TO have a good result this weekend or they could kiss goodbye to the 2010 season. It may not be the closing stages of the season yet, when these team order situations normally arise, but for Ferrari it might as well have been. If the two cars had collided then they would probably have just started to focus on 2011 which would have deprived us all of the fight between them and RB/McLaren in the next few months.
Team orders do happen, we all know this so why pretend that we are all shocked at this result? They should review the rules and make them legal because they cannot be policed effectively, or at least consistently and it seems that the more sneaky you are with your team orders the better. We should reward transparency, not subterfuge!!
Great race for Ferrari and Alonso!
[Edited on 25/7/2010 by craig1410]
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
1. There sure as hell are no team orders at Red Bull or McLaren this year as is obvious from some of the incidents between the drivers. While they've got a chance of the championship none of them will back off.
2. 'Massa understood that for the good of the team he had to move over' - come on, Massa was TOLD to move over, he wouldn't have done otherwise, understanding didn't come in to it.
What about the McLaren fuel saving / not fuel saving debacle a few weeks ago? And what about Wing-gate at Red Bull? The
difference at Red Bull is that Mark Webber is in the twilight of his career and is a ballsy Australian who won't lie down and play nice for the
team. He knows this could easily be his only chance to win a WDC and isn't going to pass it up. Vettel is the golden boy much the same as
Hamilton was at McLaren in 2007. He has been manufactured to be a WDC (no disrespect to Vettel intended). "What about the McLaren fuel saving / not fuel saving debacle a few weeks ago?"
Ummmm - that looked remarkably like racing to me, unless they banged wheels just to make it look convincing!
Which group does JB fit into then 1 & 1/2?
If you choose to give one driver a quicker car (the RB front wing swap) that's NOT team orders, it's simply favouring one driver - if you
have given your driver instructions that "he is faster than you" means "move over & let him thro' cos he ain't quick
enough to manage an overtake" that IS team orders & it quite plainly is ILLEGAL & Ferrari should at minimum have had the positions
reversed & should probably have had at least a one race ban.
As has already been said, it's been pretty clear that RBR & McLaren have allowed their drivers to race whilst Ferrari have blatantly flouted
a very clear rule & should pay the consequences, not a pathetic 100,000 dollar wrist slap.
If teams want to have a clear no. 1 & no. 2 driver then they should engineer their cars or pitstops accordingly - if they must insist on breaking
the rules they could at least do it subtley rather than wave the rule breaking in everybodies face - personally I think they should be made to payout
to every poor sucker that had money on Massa to win the race!
[Edited on 26/7/10 by russbost]
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"What about the McLaren fuel saving / not fuel saving debacle a few weeks ago?"
Ummmm - that looked remarkably like racing to me, unless they banged wheels just to make it look convincing!
Which group does JB fit into then 1 & 1/2?
Take your point entirely with the 2 groups & I think JB is a sort of 1 & 1/2, he made some fantastic overtakes at times last year & at
other times seemed to lack any fire in his belly.
At least he didn't go & cry in the bushes at Monza like one of your No.1's,someone who I would also put at 1 & 1/2 incidentally
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"What about the McLaren fuel saving / not fuel saving debacle a few weeks ago?"
Ummmm - that looked remarkably like racing to me, unless they banged wheels just to make it look convincing!
Which group does JB fit into then 1 & 1/2?
Yeah I was talking about the whole "team order" aspect where LH was told that JB wouldn't overtake him and then of course they forgot to tell JB that. It was obvious that the team on that occasion made a mess of their team orders.
JB is a difficult one to place in one group or the other. To be honest I'd put him in group 2 because I think he was simply driving the right car at the right time last year against a team mate who although very good at times, was somewhat conflicted within himself.
I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at with the two groups. It's not a perfect division but it shows the extremes clearly.
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Take your point entirely with the 2 groups & I think JB is a sort of 1 & 1/2, he made some fantastic overtakes at times last year & at other times seemed to lack any fire in his belly.
At least he didn't go & cry in the bushes at Monza like one of your No.1's,someone who I would also put at 1 & 1/2 incidentally
Cue Paul Weller and the Jam: "That's Entertainment"