Not sure if anyone has metioned it, 5th Gear tonight Jason Plato is up against the new boy (Ben Colins) in a westfield on the track.
Might be worth a watch, i seen Ben the other week on the show in a little grass track thing and for his first couple of goes he came 2nd in a loan of
a top class car.
Is this a new series? How many have I missed!?
whens it on?
Ah yes, the poor mans Top Gear
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
Is this a new series? How many have I missed!?
Yep been on a few weeks, starts 7.30. Got to admit its better than Clarkson going on and on and on and on about the same thing, James MAY and Richard Hammonds teeth and hair.
quote:
Originally posted by balidey
Ah yes, the poor mans Top Gear
Its cars, and thats enough for me.
Just cos a McDonalds isn't as nice as a fine steak, doesn't mean I dont enjoy a trip through the drive through.
Oooh, Jason did not like the new Westfield.....
Or is it just car show snobbery.....
Then again £25000 is a lot of dosh for a kit car
I dont think its snobbery, like he said "he could build a better one in his garage", like us
Can't see how they could supply a car for £25k thats held together with velcro and with such a bad finish!! That one must be the best
they've got too.
Makes me feel happy to have a N/A engine in my car
[Edited on 26/11/10 by franky]
The difference is time:
add up how many hour you spend building - then work out what you'd need to pay yourself....
even at the minimum wage it'll be a scary number 
then again Jason never seems to like many of the track cars 
[Edited on 26/11/2010 by mcerd1]
OUCH that was harsh.
The guy drives track cars for his day job, he is hugely spoilt.
He really didn't like it did he, mind I wouldn't velcro my tunnel down and what was the steering wheel made from?
ATB Dan.
just watched it,
dosnt sounds like he liked it, anway anyone have the full spec list for it? what wheel tyre combo does it use?
looking at the rest of the car maybe some type of velcro.
Its the bottom one on this page
Good luck selling it at £27k
Wheels look like Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 and the tyres are Toyo R1R's...205/50/15???
[Edited on 26/11/10 by tul214]
[Edited on 26/11/10 by tul214]
Just watched it on Five.co.uk.
He summed it up....
"I can make better in my garage"
Well, so can I
That steering wheel was shocking. Lets be honest, in the current climate and with how good to drive most hot hatches are now, the likes of Westfield cannot justify £25000 without a decent increase in build quality from a factory built model. £25000 buys you a lot of secondhand very quick cars with mod cons and decent build quality. What could we build for £25000?!
100 locosts?
quote:
Originally posted by escary
100 locosts?
if i had 25k burning a hole in my pocket i'd buy a cateringvan everytime
Really, out of all the cars you could buy for £25k you'd by a Caterham? ...
and thats the problem most people wouldn't because I don't know anyone who has one of these as the daily driver (I know someone will jump up
and say "me, I do, its my daily driver sir"
so the price people pay for one of these is disposable income territory. Well if you are in the
£25k disposable income field then chances are you will be looking at more then a 7. So limited sales potential hence price goes up.
Now drop the price because you can sell to Europe (so bigger market) and go for volume. Lets face it the build quality can't drop much more by
the evidence on Fifth Gear last night so Be a low volume specialist and give it a USP that potential buyers want or become a volume manufacturer
and pitch accordingly. Sitting in the middle is a dark place to be.
One comment Plato said last night was that the time had come for a modern equivilent. Adam W in CKC this month also suggested that with Lotus moving
up the tree and away from the Elise with its new offerings, there is a hole in the market for a light weight, modern, sports tourer type car. One
which is good for blatting and weekend touring and that Caterham should step into the gap.
Well if I were Westfield or Caterham I would be considering this seriously because that is an established market. Also if I were The Bulmer Bros (Raw)
I would be pitching the Fulcrum and Phoenix at this market to catch a piece of it. True they would have to "soften" them and be keen on
pricing to appeal to the tourer element with a smaller disposable income but all the better for that.
IMHO
.................Neil
Not sure I agree with your reasoning there Neil.
Forget the price for a minute... if you're looking at a Westie, then the chances are you're not in the market for a hot-hatch, second hand
porker, or the likes. You want a minimalist seven-type vehicle.
Now make that Westie you're looking at a £25k one, then there's every reason to buy a Caterham instead.
I understand that reasoning and to an extent I agree but (and theres always a but) I can only apply my mindset on this which is that I have a budget
and I know what I want from a car, so what cars sit in that budget? Westies and Caterhams will appear along with, Hot Hatches, S2000's, older
supercar type offerings, TVR's, etc etc. Then I am into real choice. IMHO opinion it wouldn't be just Westie or Caterham.
........Neil
Jason's assessment was harsh - but maybe it was accurate?
His major point was that the turbo was set up for a heavier saloon car, and simply didn't match the Westie. He reckoned that it made the car
unpleasant to drive.
His examples of bad build quality were appalling, even in a spartan car like a Seven. I wouldn't want a steering wheel that you could bend with
your fingers, or panels that flapped about or fell off, and so on. Certainly not at that price! I don't know if they went for
'flimsy' to save weight, but the car weighed more than 600Kg, heavier than mine, and I didn't build for lightness, plus I've got a
cast-iron engine and heavy gearbox.
i had a look on the westy forum last night. They are not a happy bunch
They never are... cos they don't own a Caterham!
I didn't disagree with much he had to say.
The car wasn't very good value.
It didn't scream out 'high quality'.
It was noisy and uncomfortable as a road car.
It would be too compromised as a race car to be competitive.
I've loved the seven concept for as long as I can remember, but find it increasingly difficult to defend these days.
Plato was right.
It's not the 50s any more.
Time to move for one of the big manufacturers to move things along and come up with the killer design that is a real alternative to the mainstream,
works in the modern world and doesn't need excusing.
I don't think it'll be a front engined car with no doors or roof.
Maybe Westfield should be looking to dust down the GTM Libra, which is now theirs, and give it a bit of development.
Make it a real alternative to an Elise.
Plato also tested the Brooke, he hated that too - I think it is a dislike of anything minimalist, his personal taste.
I am sure the Westy was far superior to my car on many levels, but mine was a tenth of the cost, and mine is far stronger and robust (and heavier!),
but I LOVE my car and wouldn't swap for anything - again personal taste.