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What would be the cheapest way to run a car?
John P - 20/10/12 at 08:50 AM

I’m trying to sort out the very cheapest way to run a car as in a couple of years I’m due to retire and don’t have much of a private pension to look forward to.

The vehicle would need to be reasonably inexpensive to buy so I’m not really concerned about depreciation but the critical thing will be to minimise on-going costs such as tax, insurance and any maintenance I can’t do myself.

Looking on the net cars like the Fiesta, Clio etc seem to have the lowest cost per mile but that includes depreciation and assumes buying a new car.

However, apart from my current daily driver I also have a 1929 Austin 7 sports which is totally impractical but only costs me the MOT (soon to be un-necessary) plus around £60 / year for insurance which lead me to think about a more practical classic car, possibly an early Mini, Escort, Scimitar or similar.

Any thoughts on this?

John.

daviep - 20/10/12 at 09:04 AM

Get something tax free, drop in a VAG tdi and then run it on veg oil, would I think be very close to the cheapest motoring possible.

Cheers
Davie

coozer - 20/10/12 at 10:12 AM

Pug 106, or Saxo 1.5D.. cheap as chips to buy, and run.. Mine did 80, yes 80mpg round the doors...

britishtrident - 20/10/12 at 12:49 PM

A lot depends on what mileage you will be doing sub 8,000 miles and fuel and tyre cost become less important.

As to the diesel v petrol question a Mondeo sized diesel will be considerably cheaper to supply with fuel than a petrol Mondeo but when buying the car you will pay an considerable price premium over the equivalent petrol model and low mileage diesel cars are like gold dust.
Typically you will find a a mid size range diesel will fetch £900 to £2000 more than an petrol model of the same age although the diesel will have a considerably higher mileage.
With small hatchbacks a diesel engine makes less sense



Option (1) Buy a new small Kia or Hyundai on an interest free deal 7 years warranty on the Kia or 5 years on the Hyundai, good cheap cars nice to drive but you will have to pay for servicing.

Option (2) If you only think you will do a small annual mileage buy a cheap but good big car that you can maintain yourself at reasonable cost loads of good Saabs, BMWs, Jags and MG ZTs around at the £1000 to £2000 mark. Just shop carefully and find a really good one. Just watch check the road tax band for the exact model , transmission type and year before you buy. Remember you are dealing with a bigger more complex vehicle so be sure you find a good one.

Option (3) Do the auction rounds and find a good Japanese medium sized model Honda Toyota or Mazda, However as rule Toyotas and Mazdas fetch higher prices than most european models if you want a bargain the good but very unglamorous Nissan Almera.

Option (4) The VW option find a good Golf or Polo, recent VW aren't as bullet proof as they used to be but 10 year old VW is a good safe bet and good for DIY but be aware you will have to pay more than for say a Vauxhall or Fiat of similar age and condition. The ones I have seen go through auction fetch £700 to £2000 more than typical older but low mileage euro boxes.

Option (5) The buy anything mainstream as long as it is cheap, low mileage, absolutely pristine and cheap to maintain old Mondeo, Focus, Rover 45 MG ZS. Loads of very cheap older 1.8/2 litre Mondeos but the real bargains are sub 50,000 mile Rovers which fall into to the th £500 to £1200 bracket, good fuel consumption, cheap parts and easy to work on.
We have a cheap but low mileage Rover 45 1.4 as our second car that we bought for very little money at auction, in suburban driving it returns 42mpg inn summer and 38mpg winter since purchase it has required a new exhaust and two brake pipes. It is cheap to insure and at £145 pa reasonably cheap to tax and is fun to drive.

Option (6) The cheap sports car to cherish MX5, MG TF or MR2 ---- some real bargains to found if you look hard enough.

[Edited on 20/10/12 by britishtrident]

hobbsy - 20/10/12 at 03:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Pug 106, or Saxo 1.5D.. cheap as chips to buy, and run.. Mine did 80, yes 80mpg round the doors...


Would it still do 80mpg at 80mph on the motorway?

Peteff - 20/10/12 at 05:00 PM

Get something pre 1960, free road tax and no MOT soon plus classic insurance.

John P - 20/10/12 at 05:15 PM

That's what I was considering but what pre 1960's cars would actually be both affordable and practical enough to use as everyday transport in modern traffic conditions?

coozer - 20/10/12 at 06:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Pug 106, or Saxo 1.5D.. cheap as chips to buy, and run.. Mine did 80, yes 80mpg round the doors...


Would it still do 80mpg at 80mph on the motorway?


Like I said, that was round the doors, no idea about motorways as theres none round here (well 1 but it goes nowhere) but are you aware 80mph is illegal..

mark chandler - 20/10/12 at 06:14 PM

Per August 73 you need, historic tax and classic insurance.

Nothing to stop you putting a modern economical engine into something of this era, for me although getting thin on the ground a classic range rover with a TDI engine would do it, simple to maintain and loads of spares available.

Scimitar could be good as you have noted, just need to junk that V6 lump.

Other thing to consider if you are doing low miles is something on the way up, the costs of running can then be negated, if you do not mind sports cars then a decent MGB maybe.

Regards Mark

Volvorsport - 20/10/12 at 06:38 PM

volvo amazon...........

very good in their day ....

britishtrident - 20/10/12 at 06:59 PM

Nothing pre-1960 is practical for everyday use, these days we expect cars to start on the button whatever the weather in addition anything that would be usable in modern traffic is too expensive to destroy in everyday use.

1960s to 1980s designed cars are fairly usable in modern traffic but they all rot at slightest suggestion of dampness and the spares situation for most with the exception of Minis MGs and some Triumphs and some Jags is for the most part non-existent. Say your were lucky enough to find a really nice 1800 Landcrab or Hillman Hunter or Triumph 2000 all it would take is one failure or very minor accident and the car could be off the road for weeks, months or longer.

[Edited on 20/10/12 by britishtrident]

britishtrident - 20/10/12 at 07:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
volvo amazon...........

very good in their day ....



They were very reliable as were the 144s but although they weren't exactly light on fuel although better in this respect than the 140s.

Quite a lot of 140s and 240s only went to the crusher because of MOT failures on front wishbone inner bushes, on any I encountered the long through bolt was seized solid and made repair uneconomic on an old very high mileage car.

James - 20/10/12 at 09:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Get something tax free, drop in a VAG tdi and then run it on veg oil, would I think be very close to the cheapest motoring possible.

Cheers
Davie



My reason for asking about this is O/T, but out of interest, which engine would you go with? What would u do about ECU etc?

I have 'never never' dreams about my Mk2 Golf!

Cheers,
James

Ninehigh - 20/10/12 at 10:43 PM

Hmm, I'm picturing a Morris Minor with a Pug hdi engine, maybe the 1.4? It'll be powerful enough to run in modern traffic and my 2l one runs on bio quite nicely.

daviep - 20/10/12 at 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Get something tax free, drop in a VAG tdi and then run it on veg oil, would I think be very close to the cheapest motoring possible.

Cheers
Davie



My reason for asking about this is O/T, but out of interest, which engine would you go with? What would u do about ECU etc?

I have 'never never' dreams about my Mk2 Golf!

Cheers,
James


Any TDi pre the PD engines will do higher HP the better, remove the injection pump and fit one from a 200tdi or 300tdi Land Rover, job done (well nearly).

Google "VW MTDI land rover pump"

It's not a terrible job to install a complete TDi setup, my mate and I did one from a passat into an old transporter.

Cheers
Davie

Simon - 21/10/12 at 09:10 AM

I like the buy something pre mot/tax era and dropping in modern running gear.

ATB

Simon

[Edited on 21/10/12 by Simon]

britishtrident - 21/10/12 at 09:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Hmm, I'm picturing a Morris Minor with a Pug hdi engine, maybe the 1.4? It'll be powerful enough to run in modern traffic and my 2l one runs on bio quite nicely.



Nothing worse imho than those ghastly Morris Minors you see running around with Marina suspension and 13" wheels, the Minor was a truly terrible car awful to drive and rusted at an astonishingly rate. The ones that are on the road that have actually been used for everyday transport are a collection of patch panels driving in loose formation.
A lot of old cars are nice to drive but don't assume every old car is a classic that is pleasure to own, drive and maintain, a sows ear is a sows ear.

cliftyhanger - 21/10/12 at 09:50 AM

But it is never simple to just drop in modern running gear. There are always issues of converting to RWD (usually for pre 73 stuff) plus the injection issues.

Could always buy a std pre 72 car (ford will be out as big money, but there are a surprising number of earlyish cars that are in very good condition, one granny owner and all that) with a simple easy to maintain engine. Diesel and the conversion will only get viable at much higher annual mileages (8000 miles a year??) and require longer term ownership to make it worthwhile.

Alternatively a small, cheap economical modern car.

Thats where my money would go.

UncleFista - 21/10/12 at 10:22 AM

Mini with Nissan Micra running gear seems pretty straightforward

hobbsy - 21/10/12 at 01:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Pug 106, or Saxo 1.5D.. cheap as chips to buy, and run.. Mine did 80, yes 80mpg round the doors...


Would it still do 80mpg at 80mph on the motorway?


Like I said, that was round the doors, no idea about motorways as theres none round here (well 1 but it goes nowhere) but are you aware 80mph is illegal..


The point I'm making is that often small diesel hatches do well at sub motorway speeds but at they are geared lower to make them appear nippy and are often not as slippery as a larger car. So their MPG can drop dramatically at those speeds. And it's a french car so on their autoroutes the limit is 130km/h which 80.25mph

If the OP spends a fair chunk on the motorway then this needs to be considered to avoid disappointment. Also small hatches (or even 60's classics much as I like classics) may not make for the most comfortable long distance cars if that's what the OP needs???

[Edited on 21/10/12 by hobbsy]

Ninehigh - 21/10/12 at 03:36 PM

Actually thinking of that if the OP is doing a lot of town driving maybe one of those electric vehicles?

John P - 21/10/12 at 03:54 PM

We're actually planning on moving to Devon but have family in the South East so most of the mileage will probably be either in the countryside or travelling up the motorway to London.

Mileage is hard to determine but I've always used my cars a lot so even in retirement I can see us doing 8,000 + per year.

Reading all the suggestions I thinking perhaps a reasonably modern small hatch such as a Fiesta would be the most logical even though it's not exactly a very exciting prospect. What about LPG? I know it's probably hard to justify at 8,000 miles per year but once we've actually got the vehicle it would make the apparent weekly cost about half that of petrol.

britishtrident - 21/10/12 at 04:23 PM

In addition to annual mileage with LPG the distance to the nearest LPG forecourt and the cost of LPG in the local area are prime factors in the economic calculation. The price of Autogas varies much more across the country than petrol..


Getting back to the performance required in modern traffic I personally would consider a car with anything much below 70 bhp/ton unladen not really suitable for everyday use as joining motorways off an uphill slip road would be hazardous.

1950s car had low final drive ratios because motorways did not exist, even in the 1960s 15 mph per 1000 rpm was more less standard on cars up to 1600cc and that dosen't make for reliability comfort or economy at motorway speeds.

cliftyhanger - 21/10/12 at 04:35 PM

We run an LPG Zafira. Good as gold and all that, but I reckon you save about 1/3 over petrol. Similar to running a diesel, but without the grief of (a) buying and (b) maintaining a diesel. You soon learn where to fill up, but if you don't have a very local supplier I would forget it.
If there is, something like a factory lpg astra or similar could be ideal. Not exciting, but you are more after cheap I believe.

britishtrident - 21/10/12 at 07:17 PM

LPG requires more servicing than a petrol engine, the ignition system needs to be maintained to a higher standard and gas filters need changing and the gas injectors and pressure regulator need servicing although on the plus the oil change intervals can be stretched as the oil stays much cleaner.
I have just done mine changed both LPG filters, cleaned the solenoid valves, flushed clean the gas injectors, checked for gas leaks and gapped the spark plugs.

Overall this probably about the same level of work as a traditional diesel but much less expensive to maintain than say a modern VW which requires costly fluid for the troublesome exhaust particulate filter regeneration and very specific (ie more expensive) PD engine oils .