LocostBuilders - powered by XMB

Recommissioning my ZZR Indy

Guinness - 8/12/18 at 11:36 AM

After recently getting the Indy back from its long term hibernation, I'm about to start to recommission it over the winter, with a view to getting it MOT'd and back on the road at Easter 2019.

First impressions are that it doesn't look too bad having stood in a barn for 8 years. Bit of rust here and there, but not a complete wreck. Looks like the mice have chewed through the rubber caps on the top of the plug leads, but no other visble damage to the loom. Battery is flatter than a pancake and won't take a charge.

So this morning, the couriers have been, I've been to the petrol station and the local motor factors, and I'm starting to have a look at starting it.

First task was a bit of plus gas on the spark plugs to get them out, and luckily they all came out no bother.

Put a bit of penetrating oil into each cylinder, and I'l leave that until after lunch. Next up was a coolant check, bit low, but OK. At this stage I'm just topping stuff back up, rather than doing a full drain down and replace.

Then engine oil. The big Zed was always a bit thirsty in that department, but it looks like the little drip was enough over time to end up completely empty! 3 litres added so far....

Picked up 5 litres of fresh unleaded and a new battery, so I'll stick them on / in and we'll try turning her over with the plugs out first, and then go for a big bang after lunch....

Wish me luck.

Andy D - 8/12/18 at 11:47 AM

Good luck with the firing up.
I think I was at that wet Teesside day depicted in your avatar.. it was a ne7ers day was it not?

CosKev3 - 8/12/18 at 02:13 PM

If it's a carbed engine I think you will be very lucky to get it running without taking them off and cleaning them out

slingshot2000 - 8/12/18 at 02:55 PM

Sounds like you have done all the sensible things before you try to fire her up (they are always female, bitches).

One thing I may try is turning it over with a spanner/ratchet first before you go for the big bang!

Good luck and please let us all know how it goes . . . . . . . . . .

slingshot2000 - 8/12/18 at 03:58 PM

This is a long lunch break, how many courses are you having ?

CosKev3 - 8/12/18 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
Sounds like you have done all the sensible things before you try to fire her up (they are always female, bitches).

One thing I may try is turning it over with a spanner/ratchet first before you go for the big bang!

Good luck and please let us all know how it goes . . . . . . . . . .

No where on a bike engine to use a spanner/ratchet!

You could Jack the rear up and put it in gear and turn rear wheel though

slingshot2000 - 8/12/18 at 05:02 PM

I didn't realise that, but your idea would work.

CosKev3 - 8/12/18 at 05:05 PM

Yeah no outer pulleys on a bike engine,no altenator etc

Guinness - 8/12/18 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
This is a long lunch break, how many courses are you having ?

Sorry, cold rain and high winds stopped play, along with an apparent need to go shopping for some big event that is almost a month away?

Andy, yes that was a very wet day at Teesside with the NE7ER's, same day I drilled out holes in the floor and seats IIRC.

I'll be dropping the fuel hose from the bottom of the carbs, and running the pump into a jar while I turn the engine over with the plugs out. Should drain out any old fuel from the carbs and hoses, before I stick the plugs back in.

Can't really be bothered trying to jack the back end up to turn the rear wheels round to spin the engine..... hence the big bang approach!

CosKev3 - 8/12/18 at 06:27 PM

If the fuel in the carbs has not turned to jelly I will be very surprised!

It happens on lots if bikes when they aren't used for 6 months over winter,never mind sitting for 8 years!

Guinness - 29/12/18 at 04:32 PM

Finally managed to get a day in the garage again today, this time aided and abetted by my eldest.

Picking up where I left off, added a final litre of oil to the sump to slightly over fill her, then stuck the 5 litres of unleaded in the tank, and connected up the battery.

Tried the fuel pump, but it wouldn't prime. Took a while to get the boot box out and much longer than it should have to work out that the hose from the tank to the pump had perished inside it's cotton braid and it was mainly sucking air. Trip to the factors for a few metres of new hose and I spent the afternoon replacing all the bits of hose in the boot between the tank, the filter, the pump and then the main line to the engine bay.

Once that was done, the pump was primed, but we had fuel coming from the bottom of one of the float bowls. Again it took an age to get the carbs off, and then the float bowls off. No jelly! Re-fitted the carbs and fitted the spark plugs back in.

So, oil, water, fuel, and electricity all present and correct, we tried to start her. She turns over quickly enough, but wouldn't start. Not really sure why, but it's like there is no spark. It's not even catching once, let alone nearly starting.

Tried a booster pack on the battery, but it made no difference.

Anyway, it's dark now, so we've packed up for the night. Overall, pretty pleased that the engnie turns over. I think I'll order up new spark plugs as I'll be needing them anyway.

I'll ponder why she won't catch over a beer or two tonight, and have another go next time I've got a spare day.

DarrenW - 29/12/18 at 05:48 PM

Nice to hear you still have the car Mike. Well done. Mine is long gone but have a 911 C4 and a TD5 Defender to play with now.

CosKev3 - 29/12/18 at 06:52 PM

Were plugs damp/wet at all?

Could be the jets in the carbs are blocked,if the plugs are dry.

It's in the smaller bores,like jets,that the jellied fuel causes issues.

Also if the hose has broken down so badly you could have bits of that blocking them

Guinness - 29/12/18 at 07:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Nice to hear you still have the car Mike. Well done. Mine is long gone but have a 911 C4 and a TD5 Defender to play with now.

Thanks Darren

They sound suitably interesting to require occasional spannering. Are you still housebashing?

Guinness - 29/12/18 at 07:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Were plugs damp/wet at all?

Could be the jets in the carbs are blocked,if the plugs are dry.

It's in the smaller bores,like jets,that the jellied fuel causes issues.

Also if the hose has broken down so badly you could have bits of that blocking them

You could be onto something there, as there wasn't a strong smell of fuel when turning over.

Unfortunately I don't have a Haynes Manual for the ZZR anymore, so I'm a bit reluctant to start stripping the carbs down at the minute, but I might get bored tomorrow!

CosKev3 - 29/12/18 at 09:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Guinness

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Were plugs damp/wet at all?

Could be the jets in the carbs are blocked,if the plugs are dry.

It's in the smaller bores,like jets,that the jellied fuel causes issues.

Also if the hose has broken down so badly you could have bits of that blocking them

You could be onto something there, as there wasn't a strong smell of fuel when turning over.

Unfortunately I don't have a Haynes Manual for the ZZR anymore, so I'm a bit reluctant to start stripping the carbs down at the minute, but I might get bored tomorrow!

If you are sure you have a spark and before you strip carbs try spraying easy start or the like into the top of carbs,should atleast partly fire with that if spark is good

kingster996 - 29/12/18 at 10:58 PM

Gummed up CV carbs, as mentioned by Kev, is the first thing I think of when an engine fails to start after a long lay up - especially if the carbs were not fully drained beforehand.

Once gummed up are always seriously difficult to get working again - so much so that most breakers I know did a roaring trade in banks of used carbs in the 90’s.

Older slide carbs seemed to fare better, but the CVs (like those in a ZZR) are a right sod.

Just cleaning the jets will not be enough. The jelly gets into the very small channels that form part of the idle and start up jetting and they can’t easily be accessed or disassembled. Ultrasonic cleaning should sort it.

I think there’s still someone on “the Hill” with an ultrasonic cleaner. Will try and find the shop but it was half way up on the left near the post office, run by Martin Stanton aka ‘Stan’ and he’s cleaned many a set of carbs over the years.

[Edited on 29/12/18 by kingster996]

Guinness - 30/12/18 at 12:34 PM

Found a can of EasyStart in the cupboard this morning, so gave it a good squirt in each carb, and tried turning it over.

Nothing happening, so I'm thinking it's a combination of a lack of spark and a lack of fuel.

Will pop over to the Hill next week when I'm back at work to see if anyone cleans carbs.

nero1701 - 30/12/18 at 01:50 PM

I've an ultra sonic cleaner in the garage..albeit a touch far from you..

If you do want to whip them off..cover the postage, i'd happily stick them in for you

Andy D - 30/12/18 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Nice to hear you still have the car Mike. Well done. Mine is long gone but have a 911 C4 and a TD5 Defender to play with now.

I saw your old car ages ago Darren, it was green with a VX engine fitted.

Guinness - 30/12/18 at 05:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nero1701
I've an ultra sonic cleaner in the garage..albeit a touch far from you..

If you do want to whip them off..cover the postage, i'd happily stick them in for you

Thanks for the kind offer! I'll see how I get on at the local motorbike shops early next week. By then the new spark plugs and spark tester should have arrived, to either confirm or not the presence of electricity.

Guinness - 26/1/19 at 01:06 PM

Managed to get into the garage today, and have tried turning her over again. Still no joy, and using a spark plug tester on the ignition leads suggests we're not getting a spark.

I really wish I'd left myself some wiring instructions 10 years ago....

We've taken the scuttle off so we can see the wiring loom, and it's just as bad as when I cobbled it together all those years ago.

Although on the positive side, there doesn't seem to be anything damaged by mice. I did fit an alarm / immobiliser years ago, which I think I might try to remove as that could be an issue.

Stopping for lunch now.

Elmof1 - 12/6/19 at 12:53 PM

Did you manage to get the engine running?