Ok,

so if i cant find a BEC car i'm thinkin about buying a kit and putting my RX7 engine and RX8 gearbox in with a small turbo.

i know a fella has done an RX8 engine into a Tiger Avon without too much fuss but he wasnt sure if there would be any issues with a narrower car so any opinions welcome,

I can tell you from first-hand experience that a Mazda 6-speed box won't go into the trans-tunnel of an S3 chassis Caterham.

linky

linky 2

linky 3

linky 4

linky 5

linky 6

[Edited on 28/4/11 by Mr Whippy]

The turbo rotary needs a bit more room width wise than a standard book Locost has but it can be done and has been many times - the best solution is to go +4. However if you are uncertain - buy or measure the motor and with your handy tape measure visit the various kit manufacturers.

Dunno been thru this decision a couple of times. It seems a very attractive idea, at the outset.
There ARE drawbacks though:-)
Firstly the RX motor is every bit as heavy as a piston engine ... once you've added.. mod cons... like a starter, alternator and intake system, exhaust system :-).
Also exhaust system is big 'n heavy due to the nature of running a large 2 stroke ((spare the babble.. it may not 'techincaly' be a 2 stroke.. but if it looks runs like a duck and burns oil it sure seems a 2 stroke to me :-)
Also a Turbo on these is by necessity Massive ..think dinner plate. Remember the 2 stroke bit?? rotaries have monstrous appetite for air /fuel, it takes a Huge turbo to supply it.
And these run low boost ...6 psi is pretty well it for a drag car even, unless you have the bespoke Mazda Works Lemans engine that ran to 8psi.
A "competent" performance rebuild is between $5000 and $7000 locally. (don't ask :-)
Given that these engines have a ...much... shorter operating life than a Piston engine, it's more than likely any donor unit WILL need a rebuild.

Not trying to dissuade.. just raising awareness of the issues few bother to mention .

Cough Cough
U2U me your number and I will call you

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2766099.htm

Cheers
Brian

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bare
Dunno been thru this decision a couple of times. It seems a very attractive idea, at the outset.
There ARE drawbacks though:-)
Firstly the RX motor is every bit as heavy as a piston engine ... once you've added.. mod cons... like a starter, alternator and intake system, exhaust system :-).
Also exhaust system is big 'n heavy due to the nature of running a large 2 stroke ((spare the babble.. it may not 'techincaly' be a 2 stroke.. but if it looks runs like a duck and burns oil it sure seems a 2 stroke to me :-)
Also a Turbo on these is by necessity Massive ..think dinner plate. Remember the 2 stroke bit?? rotaries have monstrous appetite for air /fuel, it takes a Huge turbo to supply it.
And these run low boost ...6 psi is pretty well it for a drag car even, unless you have the bespoke Mazda Works Lemans engine that ran to 8psi.
A "competent" performance rebuild is between $5000 and $7000 locally. (don't ask :-)
Given that these engines have a ...much... shorter operating life than a Piston engine, it's more than likely any donor unit WILL need a rebuild.

Not trying to dissuade.. just raising awareness of the issues few bother to mention .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by expatkiwi
Cough Cough
U2U me your number and I will call you

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2766099.htm

Cheers
Brian

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by gaz_gaz

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bare
Dunno been thru this decision a couple of times. It seems a very attractive idea, at the outset.
There ARE drawbacks though:-)
Firstly the RX motor is every bit as heavy as a piston engine ... once you've added.. mod cons... like a starter, alternator and intake system, exhaust system :-).
Also exhaust system is big 'n heavy due to the nature of running a large 2 stroke ((spare the babble.. it may not 'techincaly' be a 2 stroke.. but if it looks runs like a duck and burns oil it sure seems a 2 stroke to me :-)
Also a Turbo on these is by necessity Massive ..think dinner plate. Remember the 2 stroke bit?? rotaries have monstrous appetite for air /fuel, it takes a Huge turbo to supply it.
And these run low boost ...6 psi is pretty well it for a drag car even, unless you have the bespoke Mazda Works Lemans engine that ran to 8psi.
A "competent" performance rebuild is between $5000 and $7000 locally. (don't ask :-)
Given that these engines have a ...much... shorter operating life than a Piston engine, it's more than likely any donor unit WILL need a rebuild.

Not trying to dissuade.. just raising awareness of the issues few bother to mention .

---

hiya, thanks for the heads up but i'm struggling to agree with any of that i'm afraid.

i've owned 8 Mazda RX7's in varying forms from totally stock to 5mpg single turbo animals
when being hammered

First off the rx7 engine fully dressed with twin turbo packs, alternator, aircon pump, power steering pump, manifolds, etc etc, came in at 175kgs from memory and the gearbox was 35 - 40, again from memory but i could comfortably lift it above my head, (gearbox that is )

With the aircon, power steering, heavy twin turbos etc away i think it was around 120ish but again this is from memory and alots happened since we weighed them, i know it was a good bit lighter than a rev 3 toyota 3sgte block and head weighed at the same time.,

The twin turbos on a stock rev 3 rx7 run 9psi boost if i recall correctly and i know for sure i used to run my small single turbo (hks t04e) turbo at 0.7bar (10psi),

I have a fully rebuilt engine in my garage at the moment thats been rebuilt using SCR apex seals, Atkins solid corners, replacement good used housing, Every other part was Mazda OEM such as side seals, water seals, oil control rings etc, , the engine was ported and built by someone very highly regarded here and came in at a little over £2000.

And then theres the reliability issue that everyone harps on about, i myself have blown 3 or 4 of these motors but every time theres been a reason,
Buying a car with an unknown engine, poor mapping, overheating due to a cracked radiator causing waterseal failure, ancillary failure,"read ignition issues", to name a couple, the engines are very susceptible to change, aslong as there set up correctly and maintained properly they are lovely engines, i have an RX7 thats covered around 55k miles since rebuild, most of which have been very hard miles and she's never skipped a beat, (touching lots of wood here)

Oh i agree with the 2 stroke bit and i actually have removed the OMP pump and run mine on premix oil in the fuel, which is another way of prelonging the engine imo,.

Then theres the really good things about the engine like how compact it is so can be mounted low down and pushed back, and the nice high rev limit from a properly balanced motor,

I Know theres a couple of fellas on here who know far more than me about rotaries so if they have anything to add it'd be much appreciated.

[Edited on 28/4/11 by gaz_gaz]

[Edited on 28/4/11 by gaz_gaz]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by scootz
I can tell you from first-hand experience that a Mazda 6-speed box won't go into the trans-tunnel of an S3 chassis Caterham.

---

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2766099.htm

with lightweight , id ditch the turbo , peripharal port 13b , maybe even a 12a .

failing that , a cosmo with its best suited engine .

quote:

---

Originally posted by gaz_gaz

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bare
Dunno been thru this decision a couple of times. It seems a very attractive idea, at the outset.
There ARE drawbacks though:-)
Firstly the RX motor is every bit as heavy as a piston engine ... once you've added.. mod cons... like a starter, alternator and intake system, exhaust system :-).
Also exhaust system is big 'n heavy due to the nature of running a large 2 stroke ((spare the babble.. it may not 'techincaly' be a 2 stroke.. but if it looks runs like a duck and burns oil it sure seems a 2 stroke to me :-)
Also a Turbo on these is by necessity Massive ..think dinner plate. Remember the 2 stroke bit?? rotaries have monstrous appetite for air /fuel, it takes a Huge turbo to supply it.
And these run low boost ...6 psi is pretty well it for a drag car even, unless you have the bespoke Mazda Works Lemans engine that ran to 8psi.
A "competent" performance rebuild is between $5000 and $7000 locally. (don't ask :-)
Given that these engines have a ...much... shorter operating life than a Piston engine, it's more than likely any donor unit WILL need a rebuild.

Not trying to dissuade.. just raising awareness of the issues few bother to mention .

---

hiya, thanks for the heads up but i'm struggling to agree with any of that i'm afraid.

i've owned 8 Mazda RX7's in varying forms from totally stock to 5mpg single turbo animals
when being hammered

First off the rx7 engine fully dressed with twin turbo packs, alternator, aircon pump, power steering pump, manifolds, etc etc, came in at 175kgs from memory and the gearbox was 35 - 40, again from memory but i could comfortably lift it above my head, (gearbox that is )

With the aircon, power steering, heavy twin turbos etc away i think it was around 120ish but again this is from memory and alots happened since we weighed them, i know it was a good bit lighter than a rev 3 toyota 3sgte block and head weighed at the same time.,

The twin turbos on a stock rev 3 rx7 run 9psi boost if i recall correctly and i know for sure i used to run my small single turbo (hks t04e) turbo at 0.7bar (10psi),

I have a fully rebuilt engine in my garage at the moment thats been rebuilt using SCR apex seals, Atkins solid corners, replacement good used housing, Every other part was Mazda OEM such as side seals, water seals, oil control rings etc, , the engine was ported and built by someone very highly regarded here and came in at a little over £2000.

And then theres the reliability issue that everyone harps on about, i myself have blown 3 or 4 of these motors but every time theres been a reason,
Buying a car with an unknown engine, poor mapping, overheating due to a cracked radiator causing waterseal failure, ancillary failure,"read ignition issues", to name a couple, the engines are very susceptible to change, aslong as there set up correctly and maintained properly they are lovely engines, i have an RX7 thats covered around 55k miles since rebuild, most of which have been very hard miles and she's never skipped a beat, (touching lots of wood here)

Oh i agree with the 2 stroke bit and i actually have removed the OMP pump and run mine on premix oil in the fuel, which is another way of prelonging the engine imo,.




Well... All I can say is Bollocks!!

The Factory Lemans Cars used 8 psi... PERIOD... and local Drag cars use 6 psi.. any more and they explode..No joke that.. it's been tried repeatedly by Professionals
IF ..you can actually lift a Rotary (complete) above' your head ..then... you should seek career employment as a car Hoist.

C'mon Kid . I've been playing with these for over 20 years .. I'm well past entertaining amateur delusions/bullshit.

These ARE great units... IN.. their appropriate context. But they are also Crap when misplaced.

TextTextText

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madteg - 29/4/11 at 05:52 AM

I brought a engine out of a T11 tried to fit it only to find the turbo ended up where my peddle box is so i changed my mind. On the other hand if was left hand drive it would have gone in.

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 11:26 AM

wasnt the 787 a rotor normally aspirated ???

my mate uses 26psi in his 13b twin turbo - it was the first uk car into the 9s.

im sure if you used 8 psi max , youd be at the back of the pack .

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gaz_gaz - 29/4/11 at 12:27 PM

Well... All I can say is Bollocks!!

The Factory Lemans Cars used 8 psi... PERIOD... and local Drag cars use 6 psi.. any more and they explode..No joke that.. it's been tried repeatedly by Professionals
IF ..you can actually lift a Rotary (complete) above' your head ..then... you should seek career employment as a car Hoist.

C'mon Kid . I've been playing with these for over 20 years .. I'm well past entertaining amateur delusions/bullshit.

These ARE great units... IN.. their appropriate context. But they are also Crap when misplaced.




you clearly are correct and i'm wrong,

although its also clear i said i can lift the gearbox above my head,
i aslo quoted figures for weight while your just spouting words, "kid"

and 8psi of boost or they explode, best tell that to the fella that was running 9's at Santa Pod last weekend running 15psi boost but planning to turn it up to 28 before the next event,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqqOm6hEM8

or

robs that suns a big borg warner at 1.8bar boost iirc and made over 700 flywheel horsepower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOH9EBLRmW0

or how about the fella on this forum with the stylus kitcar and rotary engine that runs 17psi of boost.,

---

daniel mason - 29/4/11 at 01:39 PM

i think you need to run at a boost which will give your engine longevity. it would be a seriously quick car anyway if you can fit it in. but likewise.it would be a nightmare to blow an engine after a few minutes of abuse!

[Edited on 29/4/11 by daniel mason]

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gaz_gaz - 29/4/11 at 05:12 PM

my own car, 13b rx7 has been running 1.2bar of boost or 17 - 18psi boost for the last 2 years without hichup.

most uk tuners are more than happy to turn the boost upto around the 1.2bar max then they start asking for water injection to be fitted if you wish to go further,

the engine isnt really my concern as rebuilding them is almost theraputic (sp)

i'm more interested in finding out which car will house the engine and gearbox with a small turbo.,


Although the P-Port idea isnt too bad although the noise maybe an issue,

My boss, the owner of Quantum Suspension owns a Tiga 286gpc with a P-Ported 13b controlled by a motec that we're playing around with at the moment working on a new engine port idea,


couple of pics from the silverstone classic

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehamster/3772776296/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehamster/3771966727/in/photostream/

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 06:45 PM

this is my mate geff at reworx's car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FELN_F8DETY

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expatkiwi - 29/4/11 at 08:52 PM

And your mate geoff was the first owner and origional builder of my car

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 09:04 PM

the purple westfield he put through a hedge backwards ?.....

small world.

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expatkiwi - 29/4/11 at 09:09 PM

He sold it to Bill Shurvington where it fell into a bit of a sorry state.
I got it from Bill with free chicken poo all over it

and then stripped it bare, tightend what was loose and vice versa. Put my engine in from my race car and then proceeded to throw money at it on brakes suspension etc.
End result



[Edited on 29/4/11 by expatkiwi]

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 09:14 PM

haha , bill is still building me a megasquirt .

geff asked me to repair that rear wing too - im sure i did some things while it was at uni .

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Antnicuk - 29/4/11 at 09:17 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bare

quote:

---

Originally posted by gaz_gaz

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bare


Well... All I can say is Bollocks!!

The Factory Lemans Cars used 8 psi... PERIOD... and local Drag cars use 6 psi.. any more and they explode..No joke that.. it's been tried repeatedly by Professionals
IF ..you can actually lift a Rotary (complete) above' your head ..then... you should seek career employment as a car Hoist.

C'mon Kid . I've been playing with these for over 20 years .. I'm well past entertaining amateur delusions/bullshit.

These ARE great units... IN.. their appropriate context. But they are also Crap when misplaced.

TextTextText

---

Sorry mate but you are wrong, i have been playing with rotaries for 20 years and we have 2 rotary powered kit cars, a 20b 3 rotor RX7 with over 600 bhp, a Vauxhall VX220 with a 13b, a first gen with a 20b N/A, a first gen with a 13b turbo and a first gen elford turbo.

I have lost count of how many rotaries i have owned, all the turbo ones have run a minimum of 1 bar of boost except the stylus which i run at 0.8 bar with 400 bhp, any more and traction is non existent.

My last road car ran 1.2 bar and nearly 500 bhp for over 2 years of drag, drift and track racing, it still didnt die.

I also thought that the 787 was N/A

Also, the stock Mazda FD3 runs 10 psi from mazda

[Edited on 29-4-11 by Antnicuk]

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expatkiwi - 29/4/11 at 09:20 PM

787 was N/A on slide fuel injection



The rear wing on my car came from another westy but I must say that when widening the rear arches I did think the bodywork was a little thick in places.



[Edited on 29/4/11 by expatkiwi]

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 09:36 PM

this is great !!! old stories coming out .....

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expatkiwi - 29/4/11 at 09:40 PM

If you are looking for Bill he has moved from Hartley Wintney. I found that out after I trailered the car up to show him how I had turned it around. Went to his house and he had sold up and moved. I would have liked to have taken him down the road in it. Probably frit him to death. I am to scared to open my eyes when driving it. Just as well he only loved about 15 mins from me

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Volvorsport - 29/4/11 at 09:46 PM

still in contact , got divorced apparently......

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daniel mason - 29/4/11 at 09:54 PM

so whos right and whos wrong? what boost can you run at?

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Antnicuk - 29/4/11 at 09:57 PM

there is no set limit, the drag racers are running upto 2 bar with race fuel and supporting mods. Most road car run 0.8 to 1 bar, but lots run more. Some of he 6 and 7 second cars in other countries are probably running 3 bar plus. There are a few 8 9 and 10 second cars in this country.

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expatkiwi - 30/4/11 at 05:00 AM

And the general slagging of the rotary engine could have cost me the sale on my car. Thanks

[Edited on 30/4/11 by expatkiwi]

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Volvorsport - 1/5/11 at 10:27 PM

welll

i dont this is 8 psi ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BGGBU2Lpyo&feature=related

lol.

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expatkiwi - 1/5/11 at 11:13 PM

sweet

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