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Just to settle an argument
novacaine - 16/1/07 at 09:32 PM

im "debating" with my friend over two cars,

what do you think would get around SPA quicker, a 380BHP Evo or a 200HP locost.

the locost has a lower center of gravity so i would assume that it would take the Evo around the corners and it has a much better BHP/Weight ratio so i would assume it would accelerate quicker but as discussed previously the evo would probably take the locost after 100mph.

my friend thinks the evo would be better all round, who do you think is right?

Cheers

Matt

novacaine - 16/1/07 at 09:35 PM

oh yea i forgot to add, the Locost in the argument is a CEC

liam.mccaffrey - 16/1/07 at 09:38 PM

locost would be quicker i think

that evo would be a turbo, which would close the power difference gap a bit if the locost was na, apparantly.

locost could out brake and out accelerate the evo i would imagine. only be better on high speed i think due to aero problems.

i don't know spa by the way

nitram38 - 16/1/07 at 09:38 PM

SPA is a "long" circuit where straight line power is king.
I think that the 380bhp will win.
If you have a short or very twisty circuit, then I think the locost would win.

ch1ll1 - 16/1/07 at 09:38 PM

depends who built the locost
evo

[Edited on 16/1/07 by ch1ll1]

liam.mccaffrey - 16/1/07 at 09:39 PM

ahh then it would be closer and only because of aerodynamics

coozer - 16/1/07 at 09:52 PM

OOo, I think the Evo will win. With it having 4 wheel drive and all the electronic sh1t you don't have to slow down for corners, just chuck it in and the computer gets you round the corner

Hellfire - 16/1/07 at 10:10 PM

This is SPA




The Evo - easy! Too fast a track for a locost!!


Steve

emsfactory - 16/1/07 at 10:16 PM

I'd go with the evo.

russbost - 16/1/07 at 10:24 PM

Gotta be the Evo. Spa is a fast circuit with some long straights - a CEC Locost is going to run into a (soft) brickwall at around 120-130mph & over the ton will be slow to get any quicker. The Evo will only have to slow down for the Bus Stop!

coozer - 16/1/07 at 10:28 PM

Just want to add a bit more, I don't think a normal Locost will out accelerate the Evo.

In the passenger seat I saw the speedo in a work mates Evo6 go to 120mph from the bottom of the slip road to joining the carriageway a split second later. Seriously fast things they are

JoelP - 16/1/07 at 10:32 PM

would we all agree though that a busa powered radical would probably blow the evo away?!

Confused but excited. - 16/1/07 at 10:42 PM

Oh Yes !

Johnmor - 16/1/07 at 10:44 PM

I think the evo may have the edge, but its not the most aerodynamic car either.
I saw alocost (1.7 cross flow) beat a 350 bhp scubby at a local track day. beat it by almost 7 sec in a 1.55 ish lap.

But the top speed never got past 90mph.

Spa is a fast track but that hill, Eau Rouge, is an absolute corker, walked the track after the 2004 GP. Ill bet 4x4 or not the Evo driver would shit it at the top and never take it flat.

The hill must be a 1in 4 or even steeper, would be awsome in a locost flat out.





nitram38 - 16/1/07 at 10:46 PM

I think that the locoster would sh!t it too!!!!!!!

shades - 16/1/07 at 10:59 PM

Locost... The Evo would need a service before it completed a lap

iank - 16/1/07 at 11:15 PM

The answer of course is 'it depends' partly on weight but mostly on who is driving.

Better all round is an interesting idea. The evo certainly doesn't handle, stop or accelerate (I'm assuming it weighs more than 1000kg) as well as the locost could if put together well from the right bits and set up properly. What it does win on is aerodynamics, driver comfort and weather protection.


[Edited on 16/1/07 by iank]

Mark Allanson - 16/1/07 at 11:16 PM

Evo by a mile, because it would belong to someone else and I could thrash it to death without a worry, I would have too much mechanical sympathy for my own car.

Seriously though, my car would out handle an evo at sub 100mph speeds, but it becomes a brick at that speed and is an unknown quantity if hounding into corners with the airflow trying to throw the car into the clouds.

I think the evo would have it due to aerodynamics alone, but the se7en would have it on a smiles per mile point of view

Simon - 16/1/07 at 11:20 PM

So, the general concensus seems to be the Evo.

Only one thing needed. A locost with 380 bhp.

No contest.

ATB

Simon

PS I know where there's a 380bhp donor

James - 16/1/07 at 11:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon


PS I know where there's a 380bhp donor


I know where there's a (over) 380bhp Locost!

chockymonster - 16/1/07 at 11:39 PM

Which evo though and what got it to 380 brake?

THe RS is flat out at 120 and is very short geared, the GSR is more animal cruisy but still 'kin quick.

I don't think it would be as clear cut as you think, the evo isn't a straight line car, it gets its speed from brutal acceleration (mine being a lardy GSR did 0-60 in 4.8, uphill timed on a V-Box) and traction out of the corners.

alister667 - 16/1/07 at 11:42 PM

Probably the Evo. As has been said the track is quick, mind you I've eaten enough of them round Kirkistown to know they aren't that good at going round corners (they weigh 1500kgs odd). Their acceleration up to about 90-100 is OK.
The key point is that with the money saved from building the locost you could build your own racetrack :-)

zxrlocost - 17/1/07 at 12:44 AM

Id have took him in my r1 BEC

bit fairs fair were talking about a 12-20k Jap Car here to have 380 brake

so i could build one evil zx14r car for that there would be no competition

chris

PAUL FISHER - 17/1/07 at 01:50 AM

My money would be on the EVO,on that track,round cadwell park it may be a different story,but those EVO'S are monsters,look at the figures on the fq400, 0 to 62mph in 3.5 seconds,175mph,but your looking at £46,000 your average locost is less than 10% of that,and it would still give the EVO a good run for its moneythats the point of the argument that needs to be made.

Middy Tim - 17/1/07 at 02:14 AM

Call Top Gear. Get The Stig to SPA, give him the keys to both cars, let him have at it. We'll know pretty quickly after that.

chockymonster - 17/1/07 at 02:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by alister667
(they weigh 1500kgs odd). Their acceleration up to about 90-100 is OK.


Up to the IV they weren't that heavy. The V was 1340 (GSR) 1200ish RS, but if you consider that's with a roof and a weight 4wd setup!

The acceleration to 90 is phenominal, some of the cars on the lancerregister are capable of 30-130 in less than 10 seconds!

Danozeman - 17/1/07 at 06:29 AM

quote:

Call Top Gear. Get The Stig to SPA, give him the keys to both cars, let him have at it. We'll know pretty quickly after that.


Thats the sort of thing they would take on aswell!!!


Ill go Evo if u can keep it on boost. That long back straight would leave the locost standing untill the corners.

liam.mccaffrey - 17/1/07 at 08:00 AM

i guarantee though if top gear took that on thee is no way that they would let the locost win they would tweak the rules so the "real car" would ocme out on top.

or am i just being cynical

Browser - 17/1/07 at 08:00 AM

Well, if you made everything you could on the Locost out of ali/titanium/carbon fibre, gave it a six-speed Quaife sequential box and an ATB diff, chucked on some super-sticky slicks and put the driver on a lettuce and water diet you'd probably evenb things up a bit but out of the box I'd have to give the Mitsubishi the edge just of accelleration.
Still, it'd be a nice challenge

NS Dev - 17/1/07 at 08:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
OOo, I think the Evo will win. With it having 4 wheel drive and all the electronic sh1t you don't have to slow down for corners, just chuck it in and the computer gets you round the corner


Heh Heh, not been in any quick cars then!!!

In a normally aspirated radical SR3 you can pick your spot and just drive round the EVO in any corner of your choosing, seeing them murdering their tyres while you just nip past is almost hilarious!!

The radical has ooh, well according to Radical 240hp, according to everybody elses dynos about 220hp.

NS Dev - 17/1/07 at 08:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by chockymonster
quote:
Originally posted by alister667
(they weigh 1500kgs odd). Their acceleration up to about 90-100 is OK.


Up to the IV they weren't that heavy. The V was 1340 (GSR) 1200ish RS, but if you consider that's with a roof and a weight 4wd setup!

The acceleration to 90 is phenominal, some of the cars on the lancerregister are capable of 30-130 in less than 10 seconds!


Interesting though what we call "not that heavy" these days..................

my cast iron 2.9v6 sierra 4x4 is 1340kg and the lancer is supposed to be cutting edge.....hmmmmmmm....I think they call it progress............

the same "green" progress that saw the previous to current golf GTI accelerate 0-60 in the same time as the first of the mk 1's with twice the power and double the weight..................

GREAT!

NS Dev - 17/1/07 at 08:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Just want to add a bit more, I don't think a normal Locost will out accelerate the Evo.

In the passenger seat I saw the speedo in a work mates Evo6 go to 120mph from the bottom of the slip road to joining the carriageway a split second later. Seriously fast things they are


..........again, get out in a quick 7!!!!

mcerd1 - 17/1/07 at 09:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Interesting though what we call "not that heavy" these days..................

my cast iron 2.9v6 sierra 4x4 is 1340kg and the lancer is supposed to be cutting edge.....hmmmmmmm....I think they call it progress............

the same "green" progress that saw the previous to current golf GTI accelerate 0-60 in the same time as the first of the mk 1's with twice the power and double the weight..................

GREAT!


Thats one reason I like my 1992 pug 106 - it comes in a a bit over 760kg
(It almost makes up for its total lack of power)

My last/first car was a 1.1 1979 Fiesta weighing 730kg - it had crap handling & grip, crap brakes and <50 bhp
yet it wasn't left standing at the lights (when compared to modern 'ordinary' cars at least)

Infact my kit (once its built) could yet be the heaviest car I've ever owned (on the road atleast)

G.Man - 17/1/07 at 09:53 AM

So nobody thinks a 400bhp/tonne car would be as fast as a 270bhp/tonne car round a circuit?

IMO the Locost could out corner, out turn in, and out accelerate the evo... but the evo would have the edge on top speed...

Around SPA i think maybe the Evo would have the edge because of some long straights, but I would bet the Locost would be there in the corners..

As an example...

Donkervoort D8 (locost) has lapped Hockenheim with 210bhp at 1.11.6

A jun Evo with 527bhp has managed 1.10.7

An Evo 8 with 264bhp only made 1.17.2

Scaling those times, I would expect the 200bhp locost to be around 1.12 and the evo with 380 bhp to be around 1.14

Source

G.Man - 17/1/07 at 09:59 AM

Some older nurburgring and hockenheim times here

Donkervoort is 180bhp version! manages 1.14 around hock and 8.10 round ring..

Evo 1.18 and 8.25

A Westfield Megabusa (180bhp) has done a 7.50 around the ring!!!!

Caterham superlight 233ps a 7.55...

Wikipedia



[Edited on 17/1/07 by G.Man]

NS Dev - 17/1/07 at 11:05 AM

I didn't say which would be quickest cos I didn't know, but those facts put the record straight, the 7's advantage in the corners and acceleration more than outweigh its straight line issues.

Certainly it is funny watching the 4wd turbo boats on track days murdering their tyres as the kit cars (nearly all of them) just treat them as moving chicanes.

I remember going to pass a subaru with some abbreviated name higher performance derivative or other on a track day, round the outside through coppice ( I know overtaking in a corner on a trackday...ooops! ) in an ultima, and just as about to pass realising that despite feeling like we were going at a walking pace, all his tyres were smoking and his understeer was so bad there was no way we could get past without him sliding into us.

Needless to say I'm not a big fan of heavy 4wd turbocharged cars!

alister667 - 17/1/07 at 11:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I didn't say which would be quickest cos I didn't know, but those facts put the record straight, the 7's advantage in the corners and acceleration more than outweigh its straight line issues.

Certainly it is funny watching the 4wd turbo boats on track days murdering their tyres as the kit cars (nearly all of them) just treat them as moving chicanes.

I remember going to pass a subaru with some abbreviated name higher performance derivative or other on a track day, round the outside through coppice ( I know overtaking in a corner on a trackday...ooops! ) in an ultima, and just as about to pass realising that despite feeling like we were going at a walking pace, all his tyres were smoking and his understeer was so bad there was no way we could get past without him sliding into us.

Needless to say I'm not a big fan of heavy 4wd turbocharged cars!


Yep you're absolutely right. I have a vivid memory of getting stuck in behind an evo - he had similar mid range acceleration and out braking into a corner on track days is a no no - anyhow we were going round fisherman's at kirkistown a double apex right hander - I was driving at what felt like slow road speeds, he was going round it 4 tyres smoking, barely hanging on.
I gave in and outbraked him at the end of the next straight and he disappeared in my mirrors!
Any half decently set up Locost will out corner and certainly outbrake a big Jap 4x4 easily.
Maybe not on a forest stage though :-)

iank - 17/1/07 at 11:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by alister667

Any half decently set up Locost will out corner and certainly outbrake a big Jap 4x4 easily.
Maybe not on a forest stage though :-)


...and they'd all be crap on the Paris Dakar or in the middle of a peat bog

SaveTheDodo - 17/1/07 at 01:24 PM

Did anyone see the EVO (380 or 400 i'm not sure) on Top Gear - around the track it was up with the top supercars, but from a 10 mph start on the runway in 5th it was stuffed by a Fiat Stilo diesel estate.

The Stig didn't like that one!!

G.Man - 17/1/07 at 01:55 PM

it was the 400

However, if anyone would be dumb enough to drive an evo like that.....

a blip of the clutch would have spun up the turbo and got it moving...

chockymonster - 17/1/07 at 01:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SaveTheDodo
Did anyone see the EVO (380 or 400 i'm not sure) on Top Gear - around the track it was up with the top supercars, but from a 10 mph start on the runway in 5th it was stuffed by a Fiat Stilo diesel estate.

The Stig didn't like that one!!


Neither did any evo owner! Of course, when we want to accelerate past someone, we stick it in top and plant it.

G.Man - 18/1/07 at 06:50 AM

And of course you are always out of 1st gear by 10mph...

NS Dev - 18/1/07 at 10:27 AM

What an Evo, or Scoobydoo, is great for, is this time of year!!!!

What I would personally go for though, is something without all the appendage extension bits attached to it.

I was at a pub that happened to be a subaru car meet and my goodness, what a "strange"?? bunch they are.

All bar two of the cars were exactly the same blue, all had exactly the same tone of gold wheels, all seemed to be mid thirties and a tad receding but same gelled hair, all with similar looking girlfriend looking extremely bored in tow..............

dont' think I like their club, prefer our slightly odder mix on here!!!

No, for me its the subaru legacy twin turbo estate. bigger, not much slower, better for towing, handles just as well/badly (depending on your viewpoint! ) A recent run out in a normally aspirated 6 cyl new subaru legacy estate convinced me, it really is, in terms of value for money, the best all round car I have been in of late. Its also owned by the chap who races the radical, and can drive a bit (well he won a LOT in formula ford over the years, including beating Nigel Mansell!) and even he rates its performance!!!

bob - 18/1/07 at 01:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by Simon


PS I know where there's a 380bhp donor


I know where there's a (over) 380bhp Locost!



I dont think hicosts locost would be anywhere near the evo on Spa,it would be the areodynamics and on those long straights that would kill it.

JoelP - 18/1/07 at 01:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bob
I dont think hicosts locost would be anywhere near the evo on Spa,it would be the areodynamics and on those long straights that would kill it.


I can only assume you mean they would be nowhere near each other because the evo couldnt keep up? Hicosts would surely massacre it. Less than half the weight, more power (?) and a similar frontal area. Locosts are only unaerodynamic in relation to their power and weight, its not like there's a sail attached on the roof!

G.Man - 18/1/07 at 01:30 PM

And there is nothing stopping someone from making some aerodynamic bodywork...

I love speed :-P - 18/1/07 at 07:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
And there is nothing stopping someone from making some aerodynamic bodywork...




nope

Crazy Jay - 19/1/07 at 05:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
would we all agree though that a busa powered radical would probably blow the evo away?!


Wouldn't beat this EVO





630BHP, with anti-lag and launch control!

(for anyone who's been tp kirkistown, this car took the "bend" in the front straight at 140MPH )

novacaine - 19/1/07 at 08:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Crazy Jay
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
launch control!



the bad drivers way of getting a quick start eh?

lol

Matt

JoelP - 19/1/07 at 08:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by novacaine
Ooops, i must correct that incorrectly edited quote above!

lol

Matt


too right