Topgear 9pm ++ at 7pm on BBC2 The joy of motoring
ta I'd nearly forgot
Id forgot about the joy of motoring. Looks pretty good. Cheers
We don't get "The Joy of Motoring" in Scotland at 7.00pm
But at least I can get Englandshire BBC2 on the satelite
Getting fed up with TG, only on after 9 so that they can say the word 'C*ck' a bit more, and throw in similar schoolboy sniggers....which is
a shame because my young lad loved to watch it but I now have to view it first to make sure it's suitable. I think they are doing it to mask the
fact that they are running out of ideas, and invariably have a 'race', or smash up some cars at the licence payer's expense (i.e. you
and me...)
Becoming a common talking point at work, people wishing that they would feature more cars within reach of Joe Public, not just 50K+ stuff. Cars that
the audience at the show might buy or own....pretty sure that they don't all turn up in Italian exotica.
Still, nice work if you can get it!
Bring back William Woollard, I say!
one thing wrong there James running ! 
Oooh, that was a nice surprise - they said the word 'C*ck', had a 'race' and smashed up some cars at the licence fee payer's
expence. And tested a very expensive car - and said it is very nice indeed.
And slagged off kit cars.
Fantastic.
Twits. (typo)
I actually enjoyed that. I think they were over playing the Stratos at the end losing control but they've now just raced their first kit car. Ultima next?
Overplayed it??? Talk about forcing errors just for the sheer hell of it! I bet Hawk are delighted with that level of 'exposure'!
I think if I was Ted Marlowe at Ultima I would stop championing for an appearance on the show... they'd probably have the GTR blowing up, falling
apart, ploughing straight on at every corner, or something equally 'amusing'!!!
Unfortunately for the TG tossers Ultima lap times are very public. I doubt an appearance on the show is likely, but here's hoping!
Getting quite bored of JC, and RH just seems to spend his time sucking up to him!
ATB
Simon
The Stratos was set up badly I think because it was diving and twitching but yeah they were forcing errors as Scootz said.
Still, it didn't detract from my enjoyment of the car. I would love one.
Would a factory hawk not have had a normal plate? I know its not likely but they could have acctually bought a really shoddy one as the break seizing
looked fairly genuine.
When the new Delta was first released and there was talk of a come back for lancia (I think it was just before all the money dissapeared) the car was
heavilly praised by TG magazine as a return to form by Lancia yet today they say its ugly.
Also, Chris Evans could have bought some pictures with him (He was a great guest though).
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
When the new Delta was first released and there was talk of a come back for lancia (I think it was just before all the money dissapeared) the car was heavilly praised by TG magazine as a return to form by Lancia yet today they say its ugly.
http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7683
From the horses mouth.
Yeah - I'm sorry, but if you give a car to TG in anything but perfect condition, then you're asking for trouble, it would have been better for them to have said 'No' than go through all of that.
They certainly made a meal of it but as you say if you provide a car to them which has handling issues then you deserve the results.
Has done Hawk no favours at all.
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Has done Hawk no favours at all.
Possible so...however if the car had performed as it should and was knocking on the door of the lap times of some very expensive cars how many phone calls would Hawk have had then ?
You can't deny the handling looked awful. It was locking tyres and sooo twitchy under braking. I thought Stiggy did well to get around in one piece - clearly needs some more tinkering time!
It looked like it was set up more for rallying to me. A car that was set up for circuits would have done a lot better
I want one though 
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
You can't deny the handling looked awful. It was locking tyres and sooo twitchy under braking. I thought Stiggy did well to get around in one piece - clearly needs some more tinkering time!
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Possible so...however if the car had performed as it should and was knocking on the door of the lap times of some very expensive cars how many phone calls would Hawk have had then ?
reading what the guy who built it has to say it doesn't matter how it was delivered they were going to take the p%SS OUT OF IT .... thats
interesting how many laps they filmed from different angles ....... it did a lap time of 1.48 chris evans did the same time in the top gear car
A lot of intesting points made in this thread. So here's my two penith worth:
We have slagged TG off in recent times for not being a Consumer advice programme. All concerned have stated the car was not in perfect order. If any
manufacturer had provided a car in less then perfect condition they would have been kicked and we would have expected it. IMHO
They did sing the merits of the car, namely, price, appearance and character.
A point JeffW made earlier on this thread about how many enquires Hawk would have had if it was successful? My question from that is how many can they
cope with? If they get 2 or 3 enquires and 1 or 2 sales then the exposure has been a success. More then that they would probably need to gear up for
or extend delivery times (numbers are examples to prove my point, I don't know how many cars represent steady state production).
I too was angry about last night as it paints picture about Kitcars and the scene which could be seen as adverse. On reflection though it has put
kitcars on the mainstream map for the first time in a long time and they have clearly moved on compared to Joe Public's perception. The reasonI
say this is someone at work today said "You're building a kitcar aren't you? I saw TG last night and wasn't that kitcar on there
wicked lookng. I didn't realise they could look like that?!"
So from that I think we are in danger of being over sensitive because the subject is so close to our hearts!
I know a lot of people on here have cars that would be well up the leader board on lap times and the Ultima is an obvious board topper but at least a
Kit is now on the board!
Plus I can't wait for May to do a series and build one in maticulous detail!!!!
IMHO
..........Neil
I can remember when Noel Edmonds and Tiff Needell used to do Top Gear and I used to watch it every week thinking what a pair of c0cks, I watch it now and laugh and think what a bunch of c0cks but they are entertaining and do funny stuff so I enjoy it. Watch this and see what you are wishing for.
I'm sure, given the choice, Hawk would have prefered the problem of turning custom away because of a glowing review rather than what has actually happened.
I dunno.
Seemed to me like top gear were handed a car not in the best nick, drove it as it should be, and it fell apart rather.
Staged spins etc. looked like a bit of an exaggeration of how crappy the handling was, and I'd bet fairly indicative of how a normal driver would
find that particular car.
I also thought that they went to great lengths to point out the kit car thing, that is anyone can build one to some level or other, and the quality
of the work differs drastically between people (and that's not even taking the Dutton MK indys into account) and that kit cars are much more
difficult to buy than say, a 20 year old 911 that's been looked after and never abused.
Sure, they didn't represent it all that well or honestly, but I want one, and I'm sure countless other people who watch top gear and
understand kit cars do.
Of course they would. I'm only suggesting a little perspective. At less then 20% of the cost of an original with more power and at least as
reliable. I think it will appeal to a lot of people.
Do Hawk offer a complete car build service?
............ Neil
I have quite a lot of perspective as I don't own one but I do run a business so I feel for them. The car provided was from a private individual
who had the car standing for several years prior to the shooting. When the BBC first had the car they blew the engine up and had to pay for a
replacement. If you read the account of the guy who prepared it for the Stig run the owner was much more interested in the car looking good rather
than going well on track.
This is the thread on Stratos owners club by the guy who prepared the car http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7683
As you know I don't often make comments on the forum but I think that the facts as I see them need to be aired. I was there at the top gear
studio all day and saw everything outside the studio first hand. Because of my personal view of the programme I refused the offer of participating
inside the studio.I was informed after the recording of what was said and shown by my friends from Noble Motorsport who were also there on the day.
We know that Nico volunteered his car at very short notice to the people at Top Gear who has asked for an Alitalia. Nico made it abundantly clear in
his many emails to them that the car had been standing and had been rallied over the last few years and was a little 'distressed'. They
arranged transportation for the car to be collected from Edinburgh and delivered to the studios where it was filmed with sticking brakes and showing
the Stig getting out of the car after it had broken down. But they omitted to report that they had blown the engine. The Stig then leant on the side
window and it crashed down, then the wiper blade dropped off. The Stig walked away. Then they transported the car back to Nico in Edinburgh declaring
only trouble with the brakes and still not admitting to an engine problem and a broken door where they had pushed it so far back it had broken the
check strap and cracked the fibre glass edge!
This is the point where I came in. I was asked by Nico if I could collect the car from him and put a new engine in which the BBC would pay for (after
liaising with the BBC they agreed to pay for a new engine and my transportation from Edinburgh to Dunsfold via my workshop). Due to the short
timeframe in which I had to work on the car I had to drop everything to collect the car from Edinburgh. I collected and fitted the engine and gearbox
kindly donated by Ken from his Rothmans car. In addition Nico also wanted ugrades to the gearbox by fitting a 2 litre diff and an Alfa LSD - I duly
obliged. Nico then arranged with Talon to put extra spotlights on the front and fill the empty lamp pod with working spotlights and all associated
wiring and respray of stonechips. A new set of wheels was supplied by them with slick racing tyres in an effort to give the car a quick time. On
investigating the problem with the brakes - I identified this as a sticky slider and not wanting to risk any further problems, new callipers and pads
(the old pads were glazed and overheated to such an extent that they were breaking up) were put on the front and a new master cylinder fitted. I had
problems bleeding the brakes and could't understand why I wasn't getting a pedal.Again, time was running out and I had to take the car to
Talon for them to fit the front end and wire in the new spotlights. While I was there we all three tried to sort out the prblems with the brake - to
no avail. The next day after a sleepless night I took out the pedal assembly and discovered that it was bent out of line and not giving any stroke on
the pedal. After re-jigging everything the pedal was restored and we had good working brakes. A late night that night!!
Early start next morning to load the car and all tools for a shake down test at Bruntingthorpe. After a couple of slow bedding-in laps, checking temps
and levels, etc (this was the first time that the car had run). The speed was gradually built up and everything seemed OK. My biggest concern was that
Nico was unable to keep the car on the track for very long resulting in some spectacular spins across the grass and once into the tyres, narrowly
avoiding damage. Owing to Nico's time constraints no adjustments were made to the suspension in any way - setting of shocks, tyre pressures,
tracking etc. My concerns had already been raised regarding the fitting of the secondhand shocks from his green car. Later I put this issue in writing
but time was spent on getting the car to look spectacular - which it did!
Back at the workshop more work was carried out as instructed to further enhance the appearance of the car by painting in the stonechips and polishing
etc. I must admit the car did look brand new.
On Wednesday, the day of filming, I had to be at the studios by 8am which meant leaving home at 4.30am.
After off loading the car on its slick tyres I went through the start procedue with them and handed over the keys. I then went to park up my truck and
trailer away from the studio but with a good vantage point of the test track. At 9am the editor came to ask me if I wouldn't mind fitting the 2nd
set of wet weather tyres as it was pouring with rain and he said that they wouldn't get far on the slicks - I duly obliged. Then this week's
Stig driver came round(Andy something, I think) and got in the car, started the engine revving it's nuts off making it bounce off the rev
limiter. To which he remarked "I thought I was pressing the brake" - I explained to him that the brake is the next one along and the clutch
the next one after that. Off he shot.
The car flashed down the track and to me it sounded as though it was firing on 5 cylinders but it was going so fast and it was raining so hard it was
difficult to tell.
For the next hour and a half I watched through binoculars as they filmed the supposed one power lap. In fact he drives two or three laps and then the
camera team move to the next corner and he does two or three more laps and so on. In all he must have done 30+ laps. Then he did the supposed spinning
out of control on the power lap. I must admit though, he is a very good driver in the way that he provoked and recovered the spins - or maybe they
were just his practice ones. From this you can see how contrived it all was.
My view is that from the outset this was the direction that the programme was going to take. Even if the car had performed spectacularly they would
have still slated it.
Nico went in to the studio filming and immediately expressed his anger and concern over the way everything had been handled and portrayed. Including
Clarksons comments - a great looking car but a crap build (or words to that effect).
My emails and telephone conversations with the BBC were met with 'media talk' and I was told hat they were going to show the footage and
nothing was going to change. Legal action by Gerry and Nico to remove all footage of the car and all references to it have just been sidestepped by
the BBC.
What have we come away with? Nico has come away with hurt pride. Gerry has had his most excellent product criticized and future worldwide sales
jeopordised and I, although not mentioned by name, everyone knows that I built the car originally and they will associate it's failings with me.
However, I have to carry out work as per my customers' instructions over and above my personal preferences.
The script for the show was written even before they had the car and the issue is with the people who design the programme and not the three stooges
who front it. It just goes to show that these are no different to any other treacherous bastards in the media. Both Gerry and I are absolutely
devastated about the programme and fear the negative knock on effect on our businesses. I am personally well known throughout the industry - as is
Gerry.
I have a meeting with one of my prized customers on Wednesday and I have 14 of his cars in my workshops. I am dreading what his thoughts will be about
me and my capabilities after he sees the programme as he knows that I built the car.
I believe that in future if a car is offered to any influential media for road testing etc it is only fair that it should first be vetted and approved
by the manufacturer before it 'goes out'.
If this does have a negative effect I am sure that there will be 3 suicides in the motor industry very soon.
In my view it is no good whinging about the media if you are going to sit and watch this type of programme every week or indeed go out and buy their
books etc - you are just encouraging them. Take my advice and turn the twats off and go and read someone else's quality publication instead.
Chris
Thats my point. If Gerry and Chris had concerns that the car being used wasn't a true representation of there product that should have supplied a
demo model that ticked all the boxes.
To that end its down to them. As a businessman Jeff I'm sure you would put your best product forward or live with the consequencees.
I read the thread before I posted as I was annoyed as to how "Kitcars" were reported on but having read the thread I was less sympathetic
to Chris, Gerry and Nico as they were not only letting the product down but also the "kitcar" fraternity.
IMHO
.............Neil
Have to agree with you. The more you read it looks as if the whole thing was a ego trip for the Chairman of the Stratos Club (Nico) which has
backfired. Chris has distance himself from what has been done, Nico has been forced to step down as Chairman having issued a press statement on
behalf of the club without asking the membership and Gerry gets his business seen in a bad light. Not sure it will do any long term damageto Hawk but
it is a lesson in media relationships.
To be fair to Gerry, I think the BBC asked for a specific livery (Alitalia) rather than asking for a V6 Stratos from Hawk.
[Edited on 2/12/09 by jeffw]
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Have to agree with you. The more you read it looks as if the whole thing was a ego trip for the Chairman of the Stratos Club (Nico) which has backfired. Chris has distance himself from what has been done, Nico has been forced to step down as Chairman having issued a press statement on behalf of the club without asking the membership and Gerry gets his business seen in a bad light. Not sure it will do any long term damageto Hawk but it is a lesson in media relationships.
To be fair to Gerry, I think the BBC asked for a specific livery (Alitalia) rather than asking for a V6 Stratos from Hawk.
[Edited on 2/12/09 by jeffw]