Just been working at a solar energy place and its been announced that the Gov's been overruled for the feed in tariff rate back up to 43p, kit
must be installed by beginning of March though. Might be useful if your thinking of going for solar.
Cheers,
Bob
good news :O)
http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/23458/updated-1145-uk-government-loses-feedin-tariff-appeal/
bad news, for everyone who doesnt have them.
its good news for you cos if you buy them now you should get about £800 back in feed in tariff a year and save say £150-200 in leccy.
Plus its guaranteed for 25 years.
£800 x 25 = £20,000
Plus £200 * 25 = £5,000
Fit the panels yourself 2kw should cost less than £5,000
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
bad news, for everyone who doesnt have them.
Not for us that have houses that have a pitched roof's that points north / south.
regards
Agriv8
Even at 43p per kwh, I still think the smart move is to wait until the cost of panels and installation comes down a good bit. I don't think the
higher feed in tariff will cover the reduction in installation cost which is likely to happen naturally through commoditisation and economy of scale.
Early adopters will pay a premium in the long term in my opinion. Similar situation to electric cars sadly.
Don't get me wrong, I would ordinarily be very keen to go PV solar but living in central Scotland and having a house with limited south facing
roof area, only adds to my economic concerns about it. For me, solar hot water heating would be a better bet as we use a lot of hot water in our
house.
I'd be very interested to hear of any solid data which contradicts my concerns. I've not run the numbers properly, just some quick sums in
my head which could very easily be incorrect. I'd like to look at, say, a 20 year horizon. Person 1 buys just now at, say £12k install cost and
43p feed in rate. Person 2 waits 3 years and buys the same capacity system at £5k install cost but with a lower feed in tariff. I'm not sure of
the duration of the 43p feed in tariff contract, whether it is for life or x number of years. Also, I'm not sure how many kwh on AVERAGE
ANNUALLY, you would get from a £12k size installation. It will vary by latitude and sunshine hours of course but perhaps we can assume the climate of
Manchester to split the regional difference. Anyone able to fill in any of the variables to carry out this analysis? My £12k now / £5k in 3 years
estimate is off the top of my head but I doubt it will be far off. I'd like to see a break even analysis over the 20 year horizon, taking account
of all factors including opportunity cost of tying up the investment cash in PV hardware. I'd suggest 5% per annum for that financing as it could
be argued that you could remortgage to pay for the install cost and then recover some cash when you sell your house. 5% seems a realistic long term
mortgage rate.
Anyone?
C.
Seriously guys, if you're staying in the same property for the next 6 years or so & you have the funds available do it now!
I had my 4kWh installation fitted & running on Nov 19th, cost £10k. Dec & Jan are 2 months of the year when the panels are supposed to do very
little (about 4% of your annual output), my roof is not ideal facing almost directly SW & also being partly shaded, however even so & even at
this time of year in the first 2 months (to 19th Jan) it's generated around 80kWh, now I've only run very rough figures, but even at that
rate it's about the same as leaving the money in the building society. Output in the Summer months should be about 6 - 8 times that rate so it
cannot fail to payback quickly.
Bear in mind that all the income from the panels is tax free, it can only ever go up from the 43p tarif which is guaranteed for 25 years, the panels
are guaranteed to 80% of their output in 25 years. On top of the 43p, you get another 3p per unit on 50% of the output (for what you're feeding
back in) & on top of that you are making savings on your electric bills as well, it really is a no brainer.
Very envious, some of us can plan for 6 years..... jumping from redundancy through unemployment, through redundancy every 6 months... Just makes me
feel inadequate again. More depression, Hey ho.
Solar power/panels may well serve the wealthy, at the expense of those unwealthy (those who end up paying the 'subsidy'
. So yep, if
you've got some cash around why not? Not enough money? - have another few kids for the benefits...
I haven't seen the sun for a long time, but there's plenty of wind around - is there a Wind Turbine scheme?
If youve got some savings sitting in a bank/building society earning bugger all its a no brainer, where else can you get that rate without taking a
humungus risk.
Cheers,
Bob
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
its good news for you cos if you buy them now you should get about £800 back in feed in tariff a year and save say £150-200 in leccy.
Plus its guaranteed for 25 years.
£800 x 25 = £20,000
Plus £200 * 25 = £5,000
Fit the panels yourself 2kw should cost less than £5,000
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
bad news, for everyone who doesnt have them.
[Edited on 25/1/12 by jossey]
quote:
Originally posted by Snuggs
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
its good news for you cos if you buy them now you should get about £800 back in feed in tariff a year and save say £150-200 in leccy.
Plus its guaranteed for 25 years.
£800 x 25 = £20,000
Plus £200 * 25 = £5,000
Fit the panels yourself 2kw should cost less than £5,000
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
bad news, for everyone who doesnt have them.
[Edited on 25/1/12 by jossey]
I thought you only got paid if they were installed by a registered installer ?
Hi,
Just to help answer some of my own question, I got a quote for a £12k loan over 10 years and the repayments are £126.63 per month. That is £1519.56
per year just to pay back the capital cost over 10 years. I couldn't get a quote over 25 years but lets assume it is half that amount per year =
£ 760 per year to get back from feed in tariff before you break even. That is 1767 kwh per year or an average of 147 kwh per month or an average of
4.8 kwh per day.
Even if you don't need to borrow money and have savings, I'd expect you could get 5% return on savings if you were prepared to tie up the
money for 25 years!
I am yet to be convinced...maybe in 3 to 5 years.
C.
It's not as straightforward as it might seem unless you plan to be in the same house for 25 years, surely? If, for whatever reason, you move/have to move in say 3 years, is the buyer going to pay a premium based on what you spent on installation and what you were expecting to save/earn in the following 22 years?
Installer has to be MCS accredited, Panels have to be on the approved MCS equipment list.
Costs at the moment are about £3,500.00 per kWp comes down to around £2,500.00 for very large installations.
Payback period is about 10-15 years.
what about the companies who were offering panels for "free"
i know you dont get the feed in tariff but you should still benefit from the free electric.
this is what i was planning on doing until the government quoshed the rates. couldnt afford the panels myself
i was going through eon
steve
quote:
Originally posted by steve8274
what about the companies who were offering panels for "free"
i know you dont get the feed in tariff but you should still benefit from the free electric.
this is what i was planning on doing until the government quoshed the rates. couldnt afford the panels myself
i was going through eon
steve
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
As for the poor paying for the rich who can afford these, that's simply not true. Why do you think the Govt wanted to stop the high tariff? The money comes from central govt and they get it from the EU slush fund.
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
As for the poor paying for the rich who can afford these, that's simply not true. Why do you think the Govt wanted to stop the high tariff? The money comes from central govt and they get it from the EU slush fund.
Cheers,
Nev.
Are you sure there neville? I thought that the money comes from the energy suppliers, who recoup it from all their customers. Google seems to agree, though there isnt much about it.
If it does come from the energy companies, then it is very much just another scheme to help people with spare cash get richer at the expense of those who cannot afford to join in.
"Feed in tariff is paid by energy companies, energy companies get their money from customers (that is you and me)."
Which is another reason for fitting panels if you possibly can - as the money comes from the energy companies (& the payment rate of the F.I.T.
is, quite frankly, ridiculously high - that's why I've had panels fitted!) which way do you think energy bills are going to go when the
energy companies have to start paying out to all of us who've had them installed? So when prices go up that makes the saving on future energy
prices all the more important & is another reason for fitting.
It's pointless arguing about poor paying for rich etc., you might just as well say that anyone who pays 40% tax (no I don't!) is paying for
other peoples child allowance or something! That's a completely different political debate which I don't want to get into!
The scheme is there whether you like it or not & if you either can't or won't take part in it then you'll finish up contributing
towards the payments to those who do! (unless you live in a tent with a woodburner perhaps!!)
I would strongly urge any of you that can lay hands on the funds (or most of the funds & top the balance up with a small loan) to do so before the
next tarif change in March. Judging by the output from my panels so far I will be surprised if the panels don't make/save me £1200 this year,
that's 12% interest & remember it's completely tax free & it has a built in escalation factor that increases year by year, hence the
panels should pay for themselves within around 7 to 8 years, after which they will continue to make money for a further 17 to 18 years & continue
to save money virtually indefinitely whether it's for me or someone else.
Besides saving/making money, take the scenario where you have 2 identical houses in a street except one has solar panels the other doesn't, one
therefore has a tax free income of over £1000pa & savings on electricity, the other doesn't - which would you be prepared to pay more for???
I could even see it making a small difference to how much you could get on mortgage as it is effectively an increase in income before tax of around
£1300+pa, & electricity savings to boot.
All of course IMHO
We're basically making the same point russ - its brilliant for those who can afford it. I can accept that people with spare cash can invest and
make more, that is afterall the basis of a free capitalist economy, however im annoyed that the government has initially made the tariffs so high that
it is a disproportionally high return on your investment, funded by everyone else.
I'd rather see a tax on fossil fuels than subsidies on other energies.
And another thing that bugs me is the drive to microgeneration. Havent they heard of the economies of scale?
+1
They did try to bring the tariff back into line, but couldn't do it legally.
Something I don't get .......... could you get the smallest, cheapest installation now and then add to it later when you've got more
money?
and what does it cost to generate 1kw/hr of power via other means - for example if you got a cheap aldi generator and ran it for a hour how much power
would it generate compared to the cost of fuel? what about a steam engine, water turbine etc cause if you've got the connection and electrical
gubbins whats stopping you?
Re microgeneration - you're right about economies of scale but you've also got transmission losses to take into account.
Please don't get me wrong, I think it's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen done by any government (I think generated by the
previous mob, but not sure), shows a total lack of understanding of the whole scenario from small scale thro' to installation costs etc.
It's just that now it's done you're either "one of the gang" or you're putting your hand in your pocket!
But if
you're able to I would encourage anyone to join in that can - I do agree that for those that can't join in (any of my kids for example who
are all at Uni - Ahh! & there's another government story!!!) it is completely unfair
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Something I don't get .......... could you get the smallest, cheapest installation now and then add to it later when you've got more money?
and what does it cost to generate 1kw/hr of power via other means - for example if you got a cheap aldi generator and ran it for a hour how much power would it generate compared to the cost of fuel? what about a steam engine, water turbine etc cause if you've got the connection and electrical gubbins whats stopping you?
Re microgeneration - you're right about economies of scale but you've also got transmission losses to take into account.
Sorry Russ but nothing you have said helps to convince me that this is anywhere close to a no-brainer. In fact I still doubt that the break even point
will be any sooner than 10 or 12 years after installation by which time technology will have most likely moved on to much better PV panels and other
methods of energy collection.
By your own figures, as things stand today you have generated 80kwh, or £34.40 worth of electricity in 2 months, albeit I fully understand this is the
winter months. By my reckoning, if you had put your £10000 in a savings account (moneysavingexpert.com shows you can get 4.8% on a five year deal) you
would have £10080 after 2 months (£480pa -> £40pm). More importantly, your £10000 is still there too, albeit locked away for 5 years at a time.
What many people don't understand is that when you buy an asset (car, boat, PV panels) the asset's value doesn't stay fixed over its
lifetime, it drops. It usually drops as soon as you buy the asset because you can't simply sell it back without making a loss and in the case of
PV, there are installation costs over and above the panel purchase. Also, over the lifetime of the asset (say 25 years) it depreciates to essentially
scrap value. Also, I seriously doubt that your house price will be increased by £10k due to having £10k of PV panels installed. Perhaps £4k initially
but not £10k.
So, in order to break even, you need to be generating enough electricity to cover the cost of recovering the capital cost PLUS the amount that you
would have gained if you had just put the money in a savings account.
So, assuming there will always be a 5% savings deal available somewhere, £10000 placed in a bank account for 25 years at 5% would be worth £34812.90
(web link below). So in order to break even, this is the value of electricity which must be generated in those same 25 years just to break even,
assuming the PV cells themselves are practically worthless after 25 years. That comes to 80960 kWh which is 3238 kWh / year which is 8.87 kWh per day.
According to the website link below (randomly googled), the maximum daily rate this 3.29kw system based in the south of England managed to achieve was
just short of 8.5kwh/day. It's close to breaking even and would probably do so given that the 43p FIT is index linked. However, it is far from
being a no-brainer as I said above and it's doubtful if anything like 8.5kwh/day would be achieved for me in central Scotland or even in mid to
north England. Perhaps I'm missing some other factor(s), hence my invitation to work this out properly in my earlier post. My cost/benefit model
is far from perfect I'm quite sure of that but I've yet to see anything better. I even searched the web for some cost/benefit analysis data
but couldn't find anything substantial.
Anyway, Russ I don't mean to seem like I'm trying to pour cold water on your PV panels (so to speak) but I just want to gain a better
understanding of the pros and cons before I would feel comfortable taking the plunge. My mind is open to learn if anyone can provide objective
information to contradict my own admittedly trivial analysis above.
Cheers,
Craig.
Source of interest calculator: http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
Source of daily PV output: http://www.alternative-energy.co.uk/Daily%20Outputs.html
Subsidising the installation of these panels is one thing (with questions about who is actually making money here as companies are crawling out of the
woodwork taking advantage of the subsidies) but what are the costs of maintenance/maintaining your manufacturers guarantee and what are the costs to
remove and dispose of these things when the bubble bursts?
We've seen many hair brained schemes over the years and they've always had a cost that's bitten us on the ar$e
Steve
Sorry, perhaps I should have said it's a no brainer for anyone South of the midlands!
Your 4.8% is unusually high & may have catches, I don't know, but it's only actually worth around 3.3% after tax, so your figures are
way skewed b4 you start, I also don't believe you've taken the additional 3p per unit on 50% ofthe electricity generated into account, nor
what you'll save off your electricity bill .
I live in the real world, I don't think it will add £10k to the value of my house, but yes, possibly 4 or 5, which means the installation only
has to pay off say £6k before I start making money - I'll be very surprised if it doesn't do that in about 5 years.
Everything is manufacturer guaranteed for 10 years, some of it up to 25 years on sliding scale & backed with insurance warranty if the company
goes belly up, ongoing maintenance is negligable.
quote:
Originally posted by splitrivet
If youve got some savings sitting in a bank/building society earning bugger all its a no brainer, where else can you get that rate without taking a humungus risk.
Cheers,
Bob
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Sorry, perhaps I should have said it's a no brainer for anyone South of the midlands!
Your 4.8% is unusually high & may have catches, I don't know, but it's only actually worth around 3.3% after tax, so your figures are way skewed b4 you start, I also don't believe you've taken the additional 3p per unit on 50% ofthe electricity generated into account, nor what you'll save off your electricity bill .
I live in the real world, I don't think it will add £10k to the value of my house, but yes, possibly 4 or 5, which means the installation only has to pay off say £6k before I start making money - I'll be very surprised if it doesn't do that in about 5 years.
Everything is manufacturer guaranteed for 10 years, some of it up to 25 years on sliding scale & backed with insurance warranty if the company goes belly up, ongoing maintenance is negligable.
Im In Glasgow, had my system put in around the 20th Nov. Generated about 100kwh so far. Highest 1 day was a couple of days ago at 7.8 kwh for the day.
Not bad for Jan the second worst mobnth of the year. I am confident that during summer i will be over 20 per day.
My old boy has an old style meter and his goes backwards when generating!
Energy will only go up.
I agree with Russ, if you have the cash stick it on the roof.
Granted its a poor to rich tax, not that i'm saying i'm rich, but so be it.
I am happy that in 10-15 years I'll be well up on the deal.
See, the pros are actually facts, pinch of salt here and there maybe but your negatives,
The £4k increase in house price I suggested was only really meant on day 1. I expect that, if you were to sell your house after 5 or 10 years then the
value uplift would be zero. In some cases the prospect of buying a house with PV installed might even put some buyers off due to potential
contractual/maintenance and even appearance concerns. I would suggest writing off the value of the PV panels over 5 years, perhaps 8 years at a push.
All IMHO of course, no data to offer to prove or disprove this as yet.,
are all made up. You dont need to right them off, add value to your house, right that off etc to get to break even. They do that on thier own. If they
add value to your house, who cares. If your about to move don't put solar on the roof. If their written off your house value after 5/8 years who
cares, you still live there and the panels are still doing their job.
The returns make good financial sense if you have the cash available. As they break in years to come, repair them using the new super duper really
cheap panels that will be available then.
The guarantees are separated from the companies that install the kit to protect the purchaser. The 1K odd inverter will prob last 10 years, if a new
one cost £100 by then I'll be surprised. The returns are tax free and index linked for 25 years. I have a feeling they will go up more than any
savings rate you'll get. Oh and you get some free leccy which will always go up so be worth more each year.
No Brainer.
I could waste a lot of time replying to the negatives. Hot air and scaremongering.
My system here, installed and commisioned on September 13th last year, has just gone past 1200kWhrs, and a recent payment of near £500, and the main
electric bill is down by 28%
Some days in the last couple of months have been no more than 1~2 kWhrs, and the best in September was 26. We can expect much more generation in the
March~July period, per day. 4+ units so far today. Another couple of quid in the bank.
No more to say.
Cheers,
Nev.
1.45pm Just gone 10 now so far today, £4+ and counting, money in the bank....
[Edited on 26/1/12 by Neville Jones]
i do believe it will make money myself, especially as the FIT rates go up every year as your deal progresses. And, energy is going to get far more expensive soon, imho.
Install the DIY panels and get the feed in machine installed by a registered company. Easy peeeeze
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
quote:
Originally posted by Snuggs
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
its good news for you cos if you buy them now you should get about £800 back in feed in tariff a year and save say £150-200 in leccy.
Plus its guaranteed for 25 years.
£800 x 25 = £20,000
Plus £200 * 25 = £5,000
Fit the panels yourself 2kw should cost less than £5,000
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
bad news, for everyone who doesnt have them.
[Edited on 25/1/12 by jossey]
I thought you only got paid if they were installed by a registered installer ?
Very true. No DIY on these I'm afraid. Have to be certified by a registered installer, and an electrician who's certified to do the electrical setup.
If you've got a mate who's a registered installer, then good luck to you.
As for the poor paying for the rich who can afford these, that's simply not true. Why do you think the Govt wanted to stop the high tariff? The money comes from central govt and they get it from the EU slush fund.
Cheers,
Nev.
@emsfactory
@Neville Jones
Guys, you are getting all defensive when what I was trying to do was tease some facts out. Yes I was "making stuff up", otherwise known in
the scientific community as hypothesising. But I stated clearly that my mind is open and I am willing to learn and to try to come up with a better
model of the pros and cons. No need for you guys to get all defensive. Maybe you can't bear the possibility that you may have invested unwisely?
Not an uncommon reaction.
To be honest I don't think you need to worry about that because I personally think it will pay back eventually. However, I would like to be able
to figure out whether it only makes sense if you are a saver or if it might also make sense if you are in a position where you maybe have to pay half
of the installation cost from credit. Also, as the economy warms up even savers will start to get interest rates more like the levels there used to be
so again it needs some science behind the opinions.
Clearly there is a return from these schemes. However, the question of how long must one wait before breaking even and then hopefully going on to make
a profit is far from being answered to a satisfactory level in my eyes.
So, maybe between us all we can pull together some facts, free from polarised opinions and spin? That would be a step forward at least.
As for the warranties, I don't doubt that there will be a protected pool of cash to pay for this, what bother me more is what terms and
conditions might prevent someone from claiming. If anyone has tried making an NHBC claim then you will know what I'm talking about. However, I
wouldn't want to be accused of scaremongering again so I'll not say any more about it...
Finally, with reference to my hypothesis about house value not being increased. Without quoting specific figures again, all I'm saying is that
you are unlikely to get your money back (or anything like it) if you installed a PV system and then sold your house. A quality new kitchen or a new
bathroom might give you a good return in preparation for a sale but a PV system is something that the owner "chooses" to do for their own
reasons and a prospective buyer may or may not share that enthusiasm. Therefore the value uplift will reflect that. After, say, 10 years a prospective
buyer will see it like any 10 year old appliance and might be put off by potential repair costs. Hopefully by then PV systems will have proven to be
reliable and warranty providers won't all have gone bankrupt.
Anyway, if I'm honest I can say that I have no intention of buying into PV just now, partly because I don't see me staying in this house
much longer and partly because I'm not convinced of the benefits within a reasonable (i.e. <10 year) timeframe.
Craig,
I'm not being defensive, just fed up with the negative naysayers. Since that last post of mine, we've had fair weather and made another £20.
Simple as that.
We don't intend moving(at least nothing less than 12K miles south and east
)so have no fears or regrets.
The system is paying for itself, and saving us money on the main electric bill. What else can I say?
Cheers,
nev.
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Craig,
I'm not being defensive, just fed up with the negative naysayers. Since that last post of mine, we've had fair weather and made another £20. Simple as that.
We don't intend moving(at least nothing less than 12K miles south and east
The system is paying for itself, and saving us money on the main electric bill. What else can I say?
Cheers,
nev.
If I wasn't planning on moving in the next 20 years it's something I'd go for, I can say that I think its add's zero value to a
house at the minute although it makes it a better buy out of two identical houses if one was with and the other without. We looked at some houses
when house hunting that had them installed, my mrs doesn't like the look of them either which must be a woman thing, although in fairness they
do ruin the look of most houses that they're installed on.
Its a shame the goverment has extended the cut-off for the higher rate, at least they are going to stop it though. It does make me chuckle when you
hear these new companies moaning about job losses/going when they've only set up in the past 12months and just to make money on the back of a
goverment cock-up that costs everyone without PV, Sustainable energy yes, Sustainable business model no.
All in, if you're staying put for 20years, don't mind the look get it done. Or buy a porsche 993, they look nicer and are going up in
value year on year
Craig, some facts & figures.
Mine is a 4kWh installation, means simply in perfect conditions it would put out 4Kw every hour for how ever many hours of sunshine, obviously you
never expect it to put out anything like that much or on June 21st you'd have around 16 hours of sunshine & 64Kwh. If you have a roof facing
South or close to it with approx 35-50 degree angle of pitch, no obstructions for the sunlight & live anywhere in the South of the country you
will do better than anyone who isn't in this fortunate position. My installation faces approx SW at around the right angle, but we have some
trees that shade the panels a little at certain times, so I'm expecting less than predicted output for my area of the country, but obviously the
trees make far less difference when the sun is high in the sky, ie the summer months which is when most of the power is made. The system cost £10,000
to install last November & I think you could probably already save £1000 on that as prices are still dropping, mine wasn't a dead
straightforward install, but wasn't horrendously difficult.
According to government figures (note government, NOT eletricity company or solar panel installers figures) my system should pay me back at around
£1600pa & rising year on year, including savings made on electricity.
From my own observations of what the system has done so far I will be pretty amazed if it doesn't make me at least £1100 in the first year &
save somewhere in the region of £100-200 on the fuel bills to boot.
The tarif works in the following way, you get a set rate (currently 43.3p, but set to rise year on year by inflation related amount) per unit
generated which is measured by a meter installed as part of the installation. I think this next bit varies from one electric co. to another, but the
way it works for us is that for each unit going back to the grid they pay you a further 3p per unit, now they don't actually measure this! They
assume you will use 50% & send 50% back to the grid, so take 50% of that 3p & add it onto the 43.3 p, so you now see you get paid 44.8p per
unit AT THE CURRENT RATE, I strongly emphasise this because the base figure (originally 41.3p I think) is linked to inflation & last year went up
by nearly 5% (hence the current 43.3p).
So because they asssume I'm sending 50% of my electric back to the grid, the more power I can consume myself whilst the panels are on the better,
so dishwasher, washing m/c & tumble dryer will defo be going on during the day rather than overnight on the half price leccy if I'm
generating more than a couple of kW per hour (not gonna happen at this time of year!)
So although there are a few variables there, you are getting an absolute minimum of 44.8p per unit & a saving on your electric bill at around 12p
per unit for however much power you can "save" (read use!) whilst the panels are generating.
I am expecting to generate at least 2400 kWh in the year so should see a cheque for £1080, say I save a further £120 on leccy that's £1200.
So at year one I already have 12% of my investment back which I can now reinvest or spend as I wish, but I now only owe £8800.
At the end of year 2, lets say we get only a 3% rise in inflation & no increase in electricity bills (yeah, that's likely) & lets say I
invest that £1200 & get the dazzling rate of 2.5% after tax, my electricity income is now £1112 for the year plus £120 savings on electric &
£30 income from the £1200 investment, so a total of £1262 - my investment has now come down to 7538 - or, to put it another way, I would have 25%
(nearly) OF THE INVESTMENT BACK IN JUST 2 YEARS. Now are you starting to see why, if you have money earning bu**er all in an investment account &
live anywhere below Yorkshire it really is a no brainer & remember it is only going to get better from thgere on in until well past the point
it's paid for - AFTER which, yes there could be some maintenance expenses, but way less than the income.
You're NOT tying money up indefinitely, what you are actually doing is generating an increasing & ongoing income stream which is only EVER
going to increase.
Despite the nayayers, you are also getting a benefit on your house price too. Estate agents don't miss a trick, do you seriously think that where
you have a property a few years down the line generating an £1800pa income (some are already doing this now - never mind as prices go up) that the
estate agent is NOT going to be bludgeoning people over the head with this fact? ...... "just think sir, that's covered 2 months of your
mortgage payments already - have a nice little holiday on that couldn't you!" I can already see the agent rubbing his oily little hands
together! That is after all around a months salary for a lot of people.
If you look at the above you will see why it went to the high court & why they wanted to reduce the tarifs sooner rather than later. I agree that
the further North you are the less you'll get, but even when they halve the tarif it would still make sense down this end of the country.
In your case I think you should be putting that wee burn to work, I reckon you could save some serious leccy there for not a lot of money - a 10kWh
wind generator "motor" is less than £400 & any decent size brook should drive that 24/7 surely!!!
Happy generating, Russ
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
You're NOT tying money up indefinitely, what you are actually doing is generating an increasing & ongoing income stream which is only EVER going to increase.
"Any other comparison to conventional savings/investments you can always get the capital back quite easily (delays / penalties aside)."
But you can't just say "delays/penalties aside" - in both instances, you wouldn't agree to tie your capital up for 5 years if you
felt you were likely to need it in that time. Your figure of 5% is miles off, if someone can show me where I can make 5% guaranteed for the next 5
years, tax free, I'll believe it, till then it's in cloud cuckoo land. Wherever you tie the money up, whether it's on your roof or in a
bank, if you change your mind & want it back then it's going to cost you, the penalties on long term investments are generally pretty severe,
whereas in the case of sticking it on your roof, as you now have an income of at least £1200 a year & you need the money back temporarily, then
borrow it, you should certainly be able to borrow it at less than 12% pa, so you're STILL, even in this extremely unlikely situation to be better
off with the pv panels.
What's more, everyone is saying the money has to be written off - not true, I'd be pretty daft to do it, but I bet I could sell my panels
& inverter for about £5k if I went & took it off the roof myself, personally I think I'll leave it there & watch the cheques roll in
thanx!
I don't have an axe to grind here, just trying to be a good citizen & offer what I believe to be good advice - that said I am not a financial
expert, not a member of the FSA, any suggestion I make should not be taken at face value or with a large pinch of salt & I will not be held liable
for anyone choosing to invest money in this fashion!!! Please read the small print below (it is very very small)
All I'm saying you can't compare them *directly* to traditional investments as they aren't one. Yes you hopefully are getting a
payment/benefits back to the tune of 10 to 20% tax free per year but your money is still a lot more tied up than any normal investment.
I'm not saying they are a bad idea as I have gone for them myself!!!
Which supplier are you with? And how did the FIT registration process go? I'm still waiting to hear back from them after the mad rush.
The more I read this post the more I think I should be having this done at my property.
Over the next 10-15 years there is a strong possibility that I will need to have the roof retiled. For those that have had it done / done it
themselves, how big a task would it be to remove and reinstall the panels, are we talking £1000's or £100's in terms of labour?
The whole install took less than half a day and I guess a lot of the complications are more likely to occur inside the house siting the inverter and
running the wiring than on the roof.
The panels are 20 to 25Kg each so depending on how many you go for you are looking at putting ~250Kg or more on your roof so you want to be confident
the structure is sound. Although obviously the weight is nicely spread out.
Just had someone round for a site survey. This particular company deal in Caymax panels. Does anyone have a website link where the different panels
are compared as I have no idea whether the panels being offered are actually any good. I've tried Google but mustn't be asking the correct
question.
The blurb that he left says they are A grade panels which would suggest they are good but would like to read some independent reviews of panels before
I make a decision.
Any other info of what to look out for or any questions I should be asking when the next company comes?
Thanks in advance.
Bloke at work is having panels fitted by this company they are installed and looked after for nothing.
http://ashadegreener.co.uk/
Matty
Of the people who have had the panels fitted for a while, how are the actual results comparing with the figures that were quoted before install?
Less than quoted
On target with quote
More than quoted.
Ta.
quote:
Originally posted by matty h
Bloke at work is having panels fitted by this company they are installed and looked after for nothing.
http://ashadegreener.co.uk/
Matty
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
quote:
Originally posted by matty h
Bloke at work is having panels fitted by this company they are installed and looked after for nothing.
http://ashadegreener.co.uk/
Matty
You only get the cheap leccy off the system though, any FIT profit goes to the company.
unless you've a young family at home
quote:
Originally posted by franky
unless you've a young family at home