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Lessons from TOL
Mix - 26/4/06 at 04:04 PM

I'm sure I'm not alone in being concerned for the future of this forum.
In my opinion it is in danger of degenerating into a soapbox for the views and opinions of the minority.
I joined this forum shortly after the demise of TOL so I can't comment on why TOL fell out of favour but from the comments of others I feel the reasons may have parallels on LB today.
I would like to think all of us joined LB for similar reasons, an interest in car building, so perhaps it may be advisable to 'live and let live' and get on with the real task in hand.
I, for one, will not comment on an issue that I have no personal experience of and will not respond to a thread I feel is offensive. In my opinion this is the quickest way to consign the thread to history, rather than keeping it alive by continual discussion.

I would welcome comment from those with more knowledge of the TOL situation as I feel we could all learn from this example.

Mick

[Edited on 26/4/06 by Mix]

Hellfire - 26/4/06 at 04:08 PM

If I knew what TOL meant I would comment on it... as it is, from reading your post I cannot comment so I shouldn't post. IYSWIM -

mookaloid - 26/4/06 at 04:13 PM

Please enlighten us - TOL?

JoelP - 26/4/06 at 04:17 PM

keep up at the back! tol stands for 'the other list' and is a predesessor to locostbuilders

Wadders - 26/4/06 at 04:18 PM

'The other list', refers to another locost related forum which degenerated into mayhem and resulted into a few peeps being banned by the draconian moderators.

Knew somone would beat me to it!

Originally posted by mookaloid
Please enlighten us - TOL?



[Edited on 26/4/06 by Wadders]

Mix - 26/4/06 at 04:18 PM

TOL

The Other List, a previous forum for the likes of us.

As I said I joined LB after it's demise, but there were plenty of threads laying it's failure at the feet of public bitching and backbiting.
Hopefully one of the more longer serving members will give a better explanation.

Mick

Note to self......read the post before posting rather than editing out the mistakes

Mick

[Edited on 26/4/06 by Mix]

Mr G - 26/4/06 at 04:19 PM

.

[Edited on 26/4/06 by Mr G]

I love speed :-P - 26/4/06 at 04:19 PM

TOL - The Other List it was and still is on yahoo groups, but it isnt as busy as it was as everyone is on this site, i also am worried that LB will go the same way as TOL

Edit - i am wayy to slow

[Edited on 26/4/2006 by I love speed :-P]

UncleFista - 26/4/06 at 04:21 PM

TOL = The other list

The original Yahoo Locost "group" was a mine of information when the Locost boom started, was almost all on-topic posts and a mine of info.
Eventually collapsed under a suffocating weight of bitching and backbiting.

Chris W was a relative noob to the list and saw the writing on the wall and started Locostbuilders.

TBH I reckon the site is so busy now we need a moderator or two, I'm amazed things have lasted so long, all the other boards I frequent are a "lot" more combative than here

jos - 26/4/06 at 04:25 PM

Which other list, where when how why.........phew

Obviously I'm not old enough to know about TOL so I just need to KEEP QUIET IN THE BACK

BKLOCO - 26/4/06 at 04:25 PM

I kind of agree with these sentiments BUT...
When something either offends or incenses me I find it very hard not to comment....


Then again my partner thinks I'm an opinionated bugger at the best of times so maybe it's just me.... She loves me realy....I think....

iank - 26/4/06 at 04:28 PM

All forums with open membership tend to go this way occasionally. Not really suprising since the world is full of the helpful, the wise, the argumentative, the clowns, the muppets, the noobs, trolls, the odd sociapath Why would we be any different.

Having strong moderators is a double edged sword, since the line between moderation and censorship is impossible to draw.

mookaloid - 26/4/06 at 04:45 PM

I think most of the stuff on here is reasonably constructive/amusing/harmless and I wouldn't want to lose that.

I think that recent arguments have happened, blown up, been resolved and gone away with everyone seeming to settle down again afterwards.

It ain't broke really so why fix it?

Cheers

Mark

theconrodkid - 26/4/06 at 04:52 PM

ah i remember TOL even mild mannered me managed to get banned from there

BKLOCO - 26/4/06 at 05:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
ah i remember TOL even mild mannered me managed to get banned from there



OK i'll ask the question....What for?

Mezzz - 26/4/06 at 05:47 PM

Na

We dont need them.

Support Free Speach support danish!!

Support Free Speach Support Moderator Free Chat Rooms


I think that 99% of the time this forum room is frendily and polite

fesycresy - 26/4/06 at 05:47 PM

Has anyone been banned from this forum ?

If not, how would you go about it ?

Just curious, thats all

theconrodkid - 26/4/06 at 06:14 PM

it was a long time ago,cant remember the subject but me and another member on here were having some banter,nothing serious,we got banned and fled to the safety of this site,plenty others soon followed.
maybe my mate c***s could remember the details?

DorsetStrider - 26/4/06 at 06:48 PM

I've not been banned from anywhere! I feel sooooo left out!

Well I say not anywhere but that's not entirely true. I've been banned from the ladies changing room at my local gym!

Jasper - 26/4/06 at 09:24 PM

Moderators - bad idea

We all know what and who we are talking about here - ignore them and they will go away - they just thrive on arguments and confrontation.

Rememeber - it always takes at least two people to have an argument.

bob - 26/4/06 at 11:26 PM

Funny, i had a chat with chrisw only this week and he mentioned people looking after the site as he is too busy and possible moderators,i',m sure someone wil have have to service the technics of the site from time to time but i dont want to go the way of TOL.

I like it when i post a question during the day and get an answer back within the hour, sometimes within the minute

On TOL you post and you wait and wait

Anyway

The arses come and go, my only gripe with this site is the search system,if someone out there can write a database program for us can they please contact chris as he said he would be more than happy to let someone sort it

iank - 27/4/06 at 08:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bob

The arses come and go, my only gripe with this site is the search system,if someone out there can write a database program for us can they please contact chris as he said he would be more than happy to let someone sort it


You can use google to search the site, well it's better than the search feature provided.

put site:www.locostbuilders.co.uk into google before the search strings/usernames etc.

Not perfect (searches photo archive and only gets updated when google re-scans. But I find it useful.

britishtrident - 27/4/06 at 09:29 AM

Even talking about this is self-defeating -- no ?

DarrenW - 27/4/06 at 10:48 AM

The thing i like about LCB is that someone can say something potentially out of line. We all jump and correctthat person to the error of their ways. If that person needs help 10 minutes later on another thread we all rush to help out as best as we can. To me this is brilliant.

By virtue of our hobby we are all a touch eccentric. The written word is notoriously difficult to pick up any tone from. i like LCB the way it is and have never lost any sleep through it (unless you count staying up till the early hours on it!!).

It aint broke so doesnt need fixing.

Anything Else section is the correct place for non-technical oppinionated posts. We all have the option of not reading this section. all of the technical sections are without issue so that itself tells me the site is just perfect and tickety boo.

wildchild - 27/4/06 at 11:07 AM

If you don't like a topic, don't read it.

If you take anything you read on here or any other internet forum personally, you probably need to lighten up a bit. It's not the same as having a conversation, there are people who will say stuff which they wouldn't say to your face. Just let it wash over you. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you, but don't be too upset when the occasional person doesn't.

I don't think there is a problem on this forum. Moderated forums always lose a bit of the harmless/fun banter because noone knows how a moderator is going to react to it. And we don't want that do we?

chockymonster - 27/4/06 at 07:54 PM

It's all well and good to say "if you don't like it don't read it" but you don't know if you don't like it till you've read it!

Most of the sites I'm a member of go through periods where certain members make complete chumps of themselves. I'm frankly amazed that LCB doesn't have mods as it's a big site, it just shows how adult us kids are!

Moderation is often a necessary evil and it all depends on how good the moderators are as to how much they affect the site. The biggest secret to it is not letting your personal feelings get the better of you when deciding to chop a post.

The biggest things pita for a mod is moving threads to the correct areas to keep things more on topic.

The recent threads that most are thinking of got to the stage where a simple u2u from a mod to both parties could have cooled the situation massively. I'm all for people airing grievances, especially trader related ones, but there does need to be a modicum of sense as things said in the heat of the moment could easily be taken as libelous and our little community could unfortunately be yanked out from underneath us.

Phew, after that essay (if it makes sense) I'll get off my soapbox and go hide in the corner

chrisg - 27/4/06 at 08:37 PM

Ha !

Nostalgia!!

Anybody remember "Wally"?

If anybody ever lived up to his user name it was him.

I was banned for daring to speak to some of my mates and "not the entire group".

To be honest some of that group , I wouldn't spit in their face if their moustache was on fire.

I joined up here straight away and I've been here since, in fact I don't think that anyone who currently posts (except ChrisW) has been here longer than me.

This is because I'm sad and have no life.

I'd go along with the "ignore what you don't like" line.

Cheers

Chris

TheGecko - 28/4/06 at 01:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by wildchild
If you don't like a topic, don't read it.

The advantage of a bulletin board styled group like LocostBuilders is that you can ignore a topic reasonably easily. On a mailing list (like TOL) everyone who is subscribed gets EVERY message, whether they want it or not. So if a few members start batting stupid comments back and forth between themselves, a few thousand list members are expected to just ignore it. An incident exactly like that was (as I see it) the straw the broke the back of TOL. After a long period of complaints from many members about Off-Topic discussions, a series of increasingly inane messges went to-and-fro between 2 or 3 people until someone complained. Rude words were exchanged (probably in jest/misunderstanding) and it deteriorated VERY quickly. Anyone interested can go back through the Yahoo archives (linky) and see the exchange played out, starting at message 37167, and then accelerating through messages 37185-37201.

I think someone made the simile at the time (although I can't find the message after a quick search) that a board like LB is a little like a bunch of seperate conversations in a pub, where you can choose to stand on the edge and listen or even join in. On a list like TOL, it's like everyone in the pub has a megaphone and is shouting their comments at everyone else. That requires that the speaker have a degree of common sense and courtesy and once that is forgotten things can get very ugly, very quickly.

Perhaps it was just a personalities thing because the North American and Australian locost lists on Yahoo are still extent and doing well - the NA list in particular has a lot of good, on-topic discussion (much, but not all, specific to their requirements). There have been a few arguments, including a quite notable one in the last few weeks which culminated in one member throwing his toys out of the pram and leaving

So, if there are lessons to be learned from the "demise" of TOL, it's that written communication is imperfect at best and a little common sense and courtesy goes a long way. If you're going to write something contentious, stop and think about whether you would say it to someones face in that tone. If not, then reword it or just don't say it.


Best regards,


Dominic