Hi All

I'm planning on doing some Endurance Rallying next year, especially as the Lombard is back in Wales.

I'm looking for a suitable car to meet the regs - so, up to 1400cc, preferably front wheel drive (cos I'm quicker in it) and on a limited budget.

I've considered the Rover 200 / 214 but these have, apparently, poor gearing for the lanes etc..

Other options:
106 XSi
205
Corsa
Skoda (No)

Any thoughts and anybody want to sell me a car??

Wyn

i recon the 205 xs would be easier to work on than the 106xsi as its a bigger car and engine bay is easier to get round but don't think it makes the same power as the xsi (tu) or a k series.

Ned.

[Edited on 12/11/06 by ned]

How much are you allowed to modify the cars?

Proper old fashioned Mini? Either in the under 1000cc or a mini cooper these ended up 1350cc didn't they?

Caber

The mini was only 4 sizes 850, 998, 1098 and 1275. That's why I asked about tuning/modifying. A nice old 1275 with a few extras goes nicely enough.

volvo 340 , soo cheap on ebay

Fiat Seicento? Lots of goodies for the FIRE range of engines. The 1242CC 16V engines make up to 85Hp stock, although the Sei never had this engine (only the 1108cc 8V, 55Hp I believe).. I don't know how flexible the rules are, but it's basically the exact same engine with a different cylinder head, so you might get away with it.. the car is small and light as well, which would be a plus I guess

It has to be stock so swapping engines from different models is a no goer!

I rallied minis a few year ago and if this was smooth surfaces I'd think about it bit not in the forests!

Wyn

quote:

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Originally posted by DIY Si
The mini was only 4 sizes 850, 998, 1098 and 1275. That's why I asked about tuning/modifying. A nice old 1275 with a few extras goes nicely enough.

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As suggested in the regs, Metro GTa/i or Rover 100 1.4 GSi, nice revvy 16 valve K series and quite small/agile? Plenty cheap on Autotrader at the mo.
1.4 Si Fiesta?

May be hard to find an unmodified one, but I think standard power in around 130BHP and weighs under a ton.
How do the regs deal with import cars??

[Edited on 13-11-2006 by Donners90]

Find an old Nova Sport - 1300 on twin webers.

They were built as rally cars (much as the 106 Rallye was a sort of 'homologation' special to bring a bit of motorsport cred to the road cars).

If you can find one, it'll be cheap and there's plenty of places to supply parts

They did a 999 Cooper S as well but they are so rare and fetch big money.

IMHO look at the more powerful engines within the size range and the better handling cars which I think comes down to the 106 xsi at 102-5ish bhp iirc or the k-series at 105ish bhp. The pugs handle well, metro's go ok aswell. other cars using the same engines will be bigger and heavier.

any car with less power will have to have a big advantage elsewhere to be as good imho ie weight or handling.

Having had a 205 and 106 and driven an old metro I recon it has to be one of the pugs.

Ned.

Depends how much you want to spend. 106 rallyes do well in these sort of rallies.

100bhp from the 1.3 and handles really well.

They will set you back alot more than say the XSi though as there arnt as many about. But then decent condition minis arnt cheap!

How about an AX GTi? Same engine as pug, less weight?

[Edited on 13/11/06 by Marcus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Marcus
How about an AX GTi? Same engine as pug, less weight?

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Ok, so I admit I missed a couple of the rarer and more expensive version off the list. But I wouldn't want to put any of the 997, 999 or 1071 coopers into this sort of thing, they cost FAR too much to use. Come to think of it a 1275 cooper S isn't exactly cheap either.

well according to parkers technical data:

pug 106 1.4xsi 100bhp
pug 106 1.3rallye 100bhp
pug 205 1.4xs 85bhp
pug 205 1.4roland garros 85bhp
citroen AX 1.4gti 100bhp
citroen AX 1.4gt 85bhp
rover metro gti 16v 103bhp
vw polo 1.4 16v 100bhp
vauxhall corsa 1.4 16v 88bhp
vauxhall Nova 1.4sri 82bhp
volvo 340 1.4 70bhp (to keep volvosport happy!)
suzuki swift 1.3gto 100bhp
toyota yaris 1.3 vvti 86bhp
skoda fabia 1.4 16v 100bhp
skoda fabia 1.4td 80bhp
seat arosa 1.4 16v sport 100bhp
renault clio 1.4 16v 98bhp
honda civic 1.4 90bhp
fiat punto 1.4gt 130bhp?! must be an error!
fiat uno turbo 118bhp
daihatsu charade 1.3 gti 97bhp

[Edited on 13/11/06 by ned]

somebody just competed in the endurance rally last week in a 340 - theyve got a roll cage to sell .

how do you get on with a turbo in the engine class - thought it might have an equivalence factor of 1.7 ?

if it wasnt for the capacity limit - id be saying volvo 480 !!! , they go quite well , speed sensitive power steering and suspension apparently tweaked by lotus - anyway off topic .

the reason i mentioned the 340 , is because of the CVT which means you always have the perfect gear ratio for each corner . its why the DAFs were so good when competing with a much smaller engine - thats the only advantage i can think of .

Well, the Fiat Punto 1.4GT has a turbo engine.. Basically an upgraded version of the Uno turbo block. The engine is fairly bulletproof, it has been in production in many different formats since the late '60s! Click HERE for more information on this engine (wikipedia article)

But uhmm.. yeah, 'Variomatic' or CVT transmissions are pretty nice. You;ll never miss a shift, that's for sure! Old DAF vehicles are often for sale here at pretty reasonable prices, as are old Volvo 66 models, which are basically rebodied DAF cars.. (they're usually cheaper, because thy're not 'proper' DAFs en thus not very popular among the collectors)

The ol' Fiat Panda came with a CVT as well (the so-called 'Selecta' models), though I wouldn't recommend it, since the engine is only a 1.1 liter producing 55Hp, and the transmission is quite prone to failure.

Great responses - thanks guys.

Ned - thanks for the list - eay to make decisions!

The 106 XSi looks agood option (I hate the Metro!) and there are loads of rally bits out there.

I'll have a look on ebay etc.

Wyn

wyn, if you get a blue xsi i still have a slam panel, 3 front wings, rear bumper and a bootlid in the shed and a bag of lights and bits n pieces, free spares as i want rid of them but havent brought myself to take them to the dump/scrappy!

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peteff
you left out the 997 and 1071 Cooper Ss

They did a 999 Cooper S as well but they are so rare and fetch big money.

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Read the official BL press release announcing the Victory of the "Equipe Arden" 999cc Mini Cooper 'S' in the 1969 British Saloon Car Championship.
About 2/3 of the way down this page.
The car developed an amazing 115bhp at 9,500 rpm from it's 999cc engine according to the write up.
I knew a teacher who owned one.

[Edited on 13/11/06 by Peteff]

<anorak>
I've read a lot of mini books over the years and never come across a standard 999cc from the factory, arden were a tuning company so there might have been a couple sold for homogulation I suppose.

But 999cc is one of the standard overbores for a 970cc S engine so might have been allowed by the Saloon car racing regulations of the day.

</anorak>

I think the word "endurance" needs more attention paid to it!!!

If you forest rally most of those fiats and certainly the AX it will resemble scrap by the end of 1 event, you have seen the stages haven't you!!!

I would go where others have before, and use either a challenge cup 1.6 Pug 205, (ready prepped) and stick the 1400 engine in it (can always alter logbook etc as the cars are the same as the 1.4XSi basically) or possibly cheaper option, a nova gte/gsi, again retro fitted with 1.4i engine.

A fully prepped nova is bulletproof (we ran one for years) when fitted with correct forest bilsteins all round and with the appropriate plates welded over tca's and with uniball bottom joints on the front struts.....


in fact, scrub the pug idea, use nova or corsa (the rally bits from one fit the other anyway)

any questions just ask, we ran one for 4 years in BTRDA silver star then converted it to mid engine 1.6 16v.

cheers

Nat

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev
possibly cheaper option, a nova gte/gsi, again retro fitted with 1.4i engine.

A fully prepped nova is bulletproof (we ran one for years) when fitted with correct forest bilsteins all round and with the appropriate plates welded over tca's and with uniball bottom joints on the front struts.....


in fact, scrub the pug idea, use nova or corsa (the rally bits from one fit the other anyway)

any questions just ask, we ran one for 4 years in BTRDA silver star then converted it to mid engine 1.6 16v.

cheers

Nat

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Yep, but for forest use you need bilstein legs etc which the road versions never had.

You are best to scour the classifieds in motorsport news and get a used rally car less engine, then fit a 1400i engine to it (all the rally ones will fit classes i.e. be either 1300 or 1600, most are 1600 GTE's that got used on forestry)

Just the billy legs will cost upwards of £500 new so you are best to get a complete car used.

Don't think you can drive even a tough road car on forest stages without serious mods these days, you'll be following 4wd cars round and they leave it like a bulding site in their wake, not unusual to have ruts a foot deep most of the way round each corner by the time the 2wd cars get there.

Thanks guys


Great help as usual. And thanks for the parts offer Ned!

Thankfully, the selectifs are pretty smooth as no four wheel drive cars are permitted - you obviously still need a strong car to survive.

There's a video of this year's event here

I'll hunt for a 106 / 205 / COrsa / Rover etc..

Regards

Wyn

Nissan Micra K11.
The 1.3 16V is easily tweaked till 100 bhp (Japan Domestic Market spec)
and they are rock solid.
Futhermore they did a lot of rallycupracing in Europe. So motorsports parts are easily available.

Edit:
Don't forget the first Renault Clio or 5GT Turbo

[Edited on 14/11/06 by ettore bugatti]