Have you lot seen this ?


I was only saying to a guy Sunday that I wished I had saved up for a WF kit

Then again I think I will stick with my own welding.

nope. can't see it now either. link don't work

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wot he said

N

FAIL!

Works for me...

Looks like the WSCC site is down! I saw the post last night, shocking how a chassis could fail like that and even more shocking how the poor guy was / is being treated by westfield.

Edited to say its working now

[Edited on 23/10/08 by locoR1]

works now hmmm.... those cuts are far too clean... looks like the chassis' made of bits!

It looks more like a materials problem than workmanship but they are treating him rather shoddily.

If you have only read the first page or so, read on as the front of the chassis has now failed in a big way

tha is seriously bad,and i dont recon much on the "repair" of the back end

I only saw Barry Ashcrofts avatar! Yay for boobies!

Oh - My - God!

that's incredibly scary for the failures when driving and the way the poor bloke has been treated. He tried to do his best and give them a chance and has been dropped on from a large height.

(reading between the lines I suspect he was miss sold a race chassis, but the first failure should have been repaired properly and then westfield should have given him a strongly worded letter suggesting he strips and checks the rest of the car with repairs being FOC if he returned a bare chassis & kept quiet whilst they investigated.)

A chassis should never fail like thatn this is material failure or bad craftmanship

That chassis is scrap. Needs taking apart for full assessment. Can't believe the problem is now four months old and it's still not sorted. Love the MD showing what a good firm they are by admitting to 42 new fans, 7 engines, 2 alternators and 38 sumps replaced free this year. And whats with the doubts over the warranty if you track the car? Makes me feel I get better quality down at my local scrappy!

[Edited on 23/10/08 by Dusty]

If that was me, and I had to put up with that attaitude, my next visit would be to a solicitor/MIRA/STATUS etc etc.

ATB

Simon

Worrying!

I'd be tempted to take it to Caterham for their views......

[Edited on 23/10/08 by lsdweb]

Hmm... wonder if the chassis had caused a death in the crap condition it is, and how Westfield would have replied then.

I would first be booking a seat at my solicitor's and then booking an appointment with a vehicle examiner.

NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE comes to mind.

I'm not commenting on that particular failure, but something to note:
My company buys steel to a BS grade. We can get bad batches. its always the cheap stuff, often from the far east thats the worst. Yet its all 'the same grade'. How the chinese can take our good quality steel and turn it into the poo they churn out I don't know. But I have tests to prove it. So, saying its always been the same grade may be true, but I bet to save a few quid they found another supplier of steel.

Just my 2pence worth.

There is I believe a an arguable point of law that the 'guarantee' period should reflect the length of time that an item should be reasonably expected to last with regard to the value of the item. ie a new television for £20 pound you would reasonably expect the set to last a year, however, the same size of television for £600 you would expect to last more than 10 years. Therefore the 'Guarantee' period with the manufacturer should reflect this. On this basis I think that the manufacturer has no leg to stand on with regard to this chassis.

But it is very worrying.

scary stuff!

WSC ltd should have loaned him a demonstrator and kept the car for proper investigation. Long term solution would be a turn key car AND all the parts off his car returning, with the old chassis being sent for analysis. That bodge repair looks like something i would've done!

That first repair is shocking! I could do better with my little tank and I'm utter rubbish at welding.

They have clearly been using a lower grade steel - brittle fractures have propogated from the welds in both instances due to the heat of the original welding causing structural damage to the steel.

Was speaking to a mate of mine only today who informed me that the suspension turret on his westy gave out a few weeks ago - I'm going to make sure I flag this to him.

They have a big problem brewing methinks as they sell a fair few units...

Totally Shocking in every aspect .

I have seen this sub-standard steel problem many years ago when it was imported due to UK supply problems , the steel was very brittle and would fracture easily , the sheet steel would ruin the guilitine blade in no time .
The chassis builder's would have known all about this as they would have mentioned it to the powers above , as its harder to work with , plus sometimes just the look of the bare steel is enough of a give away of its condition as it can look very blue .

I just hope that Paul gets a satisfactury outcome on this .

Mike

They don't repair them like they used to!!

40 years ago those gaps would have been
filled with newspaper and covered with a
generous helping of underseal- good as
new then

Seriously though - OMG

FM!
I'm with Simon on this one.
An absolute effing disgrace.

Looks like Westfield need to (and will) assertain the what/where and the how, now that this is very much open. The gauge of the steel (race or road) is possibly a thing that springs to my mind.
I've re-engineered the rear (wasn't happy with the one-chassis fits all around the diff. - mines a Freelander on some Sierra mounting adapter plates - so in effect hopefully obviated any failures on that tube).
It's not good though, but then my chassis is easily inspected since the powdercoat wasn't terribly good............... I won't go there, sorry.

Personally I would be contacting Trading Standards I think that this would come under the sale of goods acts which covers workmanship, goods being fit for purpose. Ther doesnit appear to be an impact damage so ther should be no failure in an unbroken tube possible . I would also agree about the comment regarding the break they look very clean hav ethe factory looked to save money and jointed 2 pieces ??

Worth calling Trading standards, I wouldnt think tha small ussage on a few tracks could possibly generate the stressed required to break fracture the tube If so never race a westie

If I was that bloke I would have taken it back and demanded either a complete refund and then gone out and bought something else or a complete turn key car built to my spec.
It is shocking the level of after sales from a so called major manufacturer. I certainly wouldn't put up with that crap service from anyone.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoelP
That bodge repair looks like something i would've done!

---

Bl**dy hell! Blame the steel, or excessive road use on an 18-guage race chassis, but those failures were put in on the drawing board. Seriously poor design!

I suspect that 'diff-box' has no triangulation at all, so those gussets just give a floppy box stiff corners. This then puts massive bending load on the unsupported tubes between the gussets with nasty stress concentrations at the ends of the gussets. No surprise, then, that as well as the failed tube there are cracks clearly visible (2nd photo) at all three other stress concentration points!

The engine bay is a similar disaster. As if the all-too-common shortened 'R-tubes' aren't bad enough, they've tried the same trick on the engine bay sides too. Removing the single diagonal and putting two corner braces in (effectively big gussets) with a length of unsupported tube between! Again, absolutely no surprise that there are failures and cracks exactly where you'd expect them! There are no 'mysterious clean breaks in continuous tubes' - each crack and failure is at a stress concentration and totally predictable.

This sort of sloppy design, and the 'wont make any difference if i move that diagonal halfway down a tube' attitude is all too common in kit car designs, but normally gotten away with. But in this case, likely compounded by a material quality issue and possibly improper use, the results are catastrophic. Could easily have been fatal.

And this from such a long established and reputed company! Remind me never to buy a Westfield

Hmmm - don't think I've used enough of these yet:

Liam

[Edited on 23/10/08 by Liam]

have to agree with the above, some very poor design there with the webs, thats only fit for barbeque construction

[Edited on 24/10/08 by Mr Whippy]

I am confused.
How come Westfield sell race chassis which is lighter, obviously thinner steel and on the warranty they say that you cannot use the car for trackdays as it will void the warranty?

So, where about are you supposed to race it? On the road?

[Edited on 24/10/08 by l0rd]

Chassis is scrap after only 2 years what a lemon, bet an Allegro would have lasted longer! Some race chassis that is!

At least the carbon floor would have held the middle together and I’m sure it will make a really good sledge for the snow once all the dodgy bits have been cut off

from a metallurgist i know....I can see both classic iron oxide rust and what looks like the surface specs of white aluminium hydroxide.
From welded square section tube?

It's unfortunate that the resolution of the photo is not better, for what I really need to see is the detail of the fracture surface. The possible modes of failure are:
ductile overload, ( unlikely)
fast fracture, ( caused by massive overload of a possibly embrittled material)
fatigue, ( most likely)
or, given the corrosion products, stress corrosion cracking
or even corrosion fatigue.

Looks like the weld was the initiation site, which would lead me to suspect several things – but I would really need to know more about the material. Of course this is also the most loaded point and sharpest change of section.



I notice that the other side has a partial crack, which will be caused at least in part by it’s being overloaded after the first side failed. However, because this side has not failed completely suggests that this crack at least is likely to be fatigue, again associated with the weld area.

I was thinking, maybe his girlfriend is really into pies and that over loaded the chassis??

I wondered if by doing the 'repair' on the back end, whether the additional stiffness along with the prior flexing of the chassis, has moved the weak point from read tot he front of the car.... Or is the concensus that the front and back failed simultaneously? What a pants design, and a reapir not even worthy of a Indian roadside repair!

Thread no longer available. WSCC have closed the lid on this can of worms.

Damn, did anyone save the web page?

all very suspicious doing that, hiding a serious safety problem on the cars, is it the company that run that site I wonder?? Certainly such a cover up would not happen here

i dont believe the WSCC forum is factory run, but im sure they have a major say in what is publicised.

I havent read it. However id suggest it is fair and correct to allow the factory to carry out extensive research and rectify the issue as a private matter in the short term. Forums unfortunately have the capacity to blow issues out of proportion. The problem does sound serious, and it does sound as if the treatment the customer has recieved is a little lacking, however no-one outside of the immediate communication chain can know the full extent of what is going on.Maybe the customer had a particular style of complaining that gave the factory reason to suspect there is more to the failure than first meets the eye. Once they determine the full extent im sure they will do the right thing. However offering betterment in the first instance is perhaps a step few manufacturers would undertake.

I was just thinking - this type of failure does make you realise that even the bigger factories arent really that big in terms of researching the design of the cars. It is these very issues thay Syd is so vocal about for the right reasons. Its just a shame that the costs of full testwork is beyond most of us.

i work in the automotive industry and understand a little about what the big OE's have to go through to gain type approval etc. It always amazes me that we are able to build high performance sportscars without this extensive testing. Iam pleased in one way as id never have been able to experience our amazing hobby, but most people enter into it knowing that there are risks.


Lets hope WF get to the bottom of it quickly and are able to learn. The cars they make are in the main very good and worthy of their reputation.