Its been running on three (not number one) and ive tried all i can think of.
Its a standard cam. The head has been match ported and skimmed and its running on Bogg Bros. R1 carbs. The ignition system is from a company called Bestec.
We have spark. Have changed plugs and leads round to confirm this. So, to my my mind that rules out the dizzy etc as well.
When you check the plugs number one is always wet with unburnt fuel.
Compression test shows 8 bar on all cylinders.
Readjusted the valve clearences this morning. Both on number one were tight.
Started it up and no ruddy change.
Whats left?

might be worth swapping the faulty plug with another as it may be breaking down.

What brand are you using? I found that my Capri used to hate Bosch plugs, and they'd break down very quickly, but no problems with NGKs.

[Edited on 8/5/09 by sickbag]

I had this exact same problem on a very slightly tuned pinto...

A new set of HT leads and plugs solved the problem....for now..... but it seems to be a re-ocuring problem....

I did wonder if the valve timing was not quite right... but I cant get it any more accurate without using a vernier pulley...

Will go and check the plugs now but think they are NGK. But, if ive swapped them round and nothing changes doesnt this mean they are okay?
The leads and plugs are all virtually new by the way.

have you checked the spark gap in the plugs?

Plugs are NGK R's APR6FS
Just took number one out and filthy. Could it be oil getting in through a valve seal. Would that do it?
I know they did grind off the bottom of the valve seal when they ported it.

I suppose the only way to be sure is is you check every step the spark has to take to get from the rotor arm to the plug.

Is there any signs of tracking both inside and outside of the dizzy cap? Especially around the post for number one?

If you've already swapped the leads and plugs, and it's still number one missing then they shouldn't be the issue. Is it still number one that's missing when you've swapped the leads and plugs?

sooty black or wet black?

You've eliminated the plugs and leads by swapping them around, but it could still be the dizzy - might not be triggering for one cylinder or be tracking the spark away from the lead on one cylinder. Maybe try turning it 90 degrees, move all the plugs and leads one cylinder along in the sequence to compensate and see if the fault moves.

I agree with Steve, If you have spark and compression then there must be a fuel prob, have you checked the carbs are still balanced.

Mike

sooty black or wet black?

Wet black. Oil im sure. Just looked in the Haynes manual and it says "worn bores/piston rings or valve guides; sometimes occures during running in period. Plugs can be used after thorough cleaning"
It is only run in i guess with a total of about 30 minutes since rebuild.

How would i identify tracking Sickbag?

The easiest way to spot tracking is to run the engine during the hours of darkness with ALL nearby lights turned off. You want it as dark as possible.

If there's any tracking going on you'll see it - like very fine 'lightning' running around the distributor cap/HT leads/ignition system etc...

Have checked the spark gap and spot on at 0.75mm.
The carbs are as they came from Bogg Bros and i know nothing about setting them up.

Can you get all these faults on new equipment? Well, had it a while but only just strating to use it.

Is the miss always there? If you pull the lead off and put another plug in the end, earthed to the block does it spark?
If its oil. Does it smoke? Does it run ok with a new/clean plug in for a while then deteriorate?

You have done that much swapping of ignition stuff. Moving the dizzy 90 degrees and all the leads round one hole rules out the dizzy/arm/cap unless the non firing cylinder moved as well. Just leaves No 1 spark plug lead which you can easily replace to eliminate.
I would have to vote for a problem with the first carb. 2,3,4 working fine. Oil into No1 cylinder would have to be heavy to disrupt firing and oil the plug. I think the first carb is tuned way over rich giving a black wet plug. Strip the carb, float level, punctured float, odd large jet in it, etc.

Hmm. Just rang a mate in a garage (who works on cars but loves bikes) and he thought the jet on number is most likely blocked.
Im gonna go and give that a look. Dont know what im looking at but will go anyway
You have all been great thanks guys.
Let you know when in a bit.

No you have not ruled out the cap and rotor. It could be a bent/badly machined contact post to number one cylinder/hair line crack/earth fault/contact & rotor fault.

The only way to check is to replace with new.

Before you fire up after replacing, I would also get and fit a new set off plugs, leaving the old ones out for quite some time bfore fitting the new ones, so that you give the flooded cylinder a chance to dry out before fitting the new plugs (so that you dont soak the new plug before firing up).

Also I assume that you have an electronic distributor not a points and condensor type, if points type it could be that the cam lobe for number 1 is worn.
If electronic then it could be a fault with the pickup/register for number 1 cylinder.

Hope this helps and you get it sorted.

What fuel pump are you using? if the original pinto one have you got a pressure regulator set at its lowest setting?

Electronic dizzy
R1 fuel pump from Bogg Bros.
Done the carb. Couldnt see any muck and diafram is fine.
Think im imagining its running better and quieter but its still not getting hot on number one and no difference when i pull the lead off

Does it run cylinder 1 at higher revs. I've just had a similar problem with my webers where the idle mixture screw was broken off blocking fuel getting in at idle. You could tell by taking the idle mixure screw out and looking down the hole. Should be able to see though into barrel. I have no experience of bike carbs though!

Other thought is that you can swap the carbs over if you're running two twins. That would rule out the carb instantly if the problem didn't go away. Might take a few minutes to do though and I'm not sure how easy it is with bike carbs.

Try replacing the valve stem seals on number one. You can do this without taking the head off. Worked for me with the same problem...

Carbs need balancing or crack in dizzy cap

I know from experience, on a standard electronic dizzy, if you turn the engine over with the distributer cap off, its possible for a cap retaining clip to flop into the workings, and jam against the trigger wheel.
The trigger wheel spins on the shaft, the end result being, when the ignition fires, the rotor arm isnt adjacent to a contact in the dizzy cap. It could be the spark is having to jump a large gap, with the gap to No1 pluglead contact being just a frac too far...
Should be easy enough to check. Rotate the crank to line up the static timing marks, 10deg? and see if the rotor arm is pointing at a contact in the dizzy cap. (Either No1 or No4)
If it's not rotate the trigger wheel to the correct position, and reset the ignition timing.

Hope that all makes sense.

Update.
Mate popped round last night who knows a bit and discovered, using a bit of hose that there is no vacume on number one carb?
Tried to reset the timing to tdc but the belt wont go on when its dead on so we have had to compromise one way and the other but no change
No crack in dizzy cap and all contacts good.
Jacko, how do you set up the carbs? I can only see that you might change the jets.
Cheers,
Steve.

Hi
My carbs are zx9r/e not R1's
If the R1 carbs are the same then
1 i had to drill the main jets to 1.7mm
2 the air screws are one turn out
3 the carbs must be balanced
4 on the carbs i have the hole in line with the main needle is blocked this stops the fuel /air mix going week at high revs
and we put two washers under the main needle
I must stress you must get it rolling roaded to get it right
Jacko

its the carbs,i have the seme carbs as jacko,i think the r1 carbs have a clip on the main neidle,make sure thay are balanced,i would check the floats and check all the main neidles are all at the same hight,then make sure thay are fixed to the manifuild,by the pipe and clips,mine poped off a cupple of times.
good luck
jamie

[Edited on 9/5/09 by jpindy3]

Cheers for all that guys.
Ill get someone who knows what they are doing to sort it. Shame im so far away from Bogg Bros. here in sunny Lowestoft

Update.
Spent a quiet night shift on the interweb looking for stuff on bike carbs and found an article that showed how Bogg Bros. themselves installed R1 carbs on a vauxhall engine. Brilliant.
This gave me the confidence to remove strip down, check and replace the carbs. No problems but, no change


Couple of mates came round today armed with gear to wet test, all fine. A bore scope, all fine. And a trick timing light.
We set the timing on tdc. We set the dizzy timing. Well out and then set to 12Degrees. We set the valve clearences. Some were out. One then noticed a small water leak around the inlet manifold so we removed it. Somehow i'd managed to chew this up on instal and water had been leaking into 2 and 3 and posibly an air leak from 1. Went and got a new Ford one from local dealer. NO CHANGE
Rang another mate after ringing Bogg Bros who's gonna come and set them up proper with all the gear next week.
If that doesnt work they are going back.

its a shame to hear that scoop,
it will get sorted .
good luck

i think its the carbs,we will find out soon.
jamie
just think of the cheep turbo conversion you can do using that set up!
[Edited on 12/5/09 by jpindy3]

[Edited on 12/5/09 by jpindy3]

I think i would go 2l Zetec with 1.8 head and throttle bodies. I love turbo'd cars but not in something so light as one of these. God that sounds like a good idea but the bank balance couldnt cope.
Thanks for trying to chear me up anyway