Got my new pinto in and setup today and having exactly the same problem as I did with the previous engine.
The only things the same between the two is clutch, flywheel and distributor. I get spark, I get fuel but it doesn't start.
I need help as to what to check, how to check it, and how to put it right. I will supply photos etc of anything anyone needs to help me diagnose why
it won't start. If I can't solve this then it's going to have to go and I will be forced to admit that a kit is beyond my ability 
[Edited on 4/3/12 by theduck]
distributor timing, you need someone to crank the motor over whllst you turn the distributor by hand, one way or the other until it kicks over, also
pour a little fuel down the plug holes first, put plugs n all back in then go for it!
hope this helps a bit!
Plug leads on the right way?
Cap good , rotor arm good, leads good, with sparks?
With fuel present, it is as suggested likely to be the timing of the distributor. With No1 piston on its compression stroke, does the rotor arm point
at No1 lead ?
Just loosen the distributor, and try a few different positions with it, then turn the engine over. Easier with a helper....
Has to be timing.
As said, give the dizzy cap a twist. Easy timing check change!
Leads, cap, arm and plugs are all new.
Will give verybudgetzetecs suggestion a go, just to calrify, I getsomeone to crank the engine while I rotate the distributor, at one position it
should fire and thenninjust tighten it all back up?
Are you running the VV carb as in the 'its in' post.
If so that could be the problem and or the associated fuel shut off valve.
have you a timing gun?
just turn the distributor a small amount at a time until it fires or starts to sound like it wants to go, from that point its just slight movements
until it fires
as said above checke the ignition leads from the dizzy to the plugs are correct, i still get this wrong ALOT lol
just think- your not to far off..............from it firing up woop woop!
Jollygreengiant - yes running the carb that's in that photo, any more info on the fuel shut off valve?
Verybudgetzetec - I'll give it a go, cheers
The fuel shut off valve does what it says on the tin.
It shuts off the fuel when you turn off the ignition.
Put a switched live onto the post on the valve,or
remove and blank it off.If it doesnt have a power supply
the engine will never start.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
Thanks Andy, any idea what it looks like?
May have just had a eureka money actually as I thinking
Know the bit your taking about...
While I go check that out does this photo of My distributor look right?
In the Haynes the cutout is in between the two arms and on mine its directly above one?
There are several dizzies from sierra engines and all need to have the correct separate amplifier box or computer wired in with them. I noticed your
post earlier when enquiring about a one wire dizzy (?points. ? from old cortina or capri)) and a two wire/three pin plug dizzy (probably inductive
sierra).
They all need to be joined to the right electronic box of tricks.
What sort of dizzy are you using and does it have the correct electronic box installed with it?
Photos would help!!!
Looks ok to me.The arm on the left is pointing
at the little mark on the distributor body. I take it
the engine is at tdc?
Andy
Dusty - yes was asking about the cortina dizzy earlier but have since realised I need te Sierra one in as that's the one the cars is wired for
and is now in and wired to motorcraft box.
Car is at tdc in that photo.
I think the guys on the fuel cut off switch may be on the money as can see on the carb an electrical connector I have nothing connected to. What I
can't see is how to remove it if it is the fuel cut off? Photo below
I used to work on Pintos quite a bit back in the day.
Have you checked you are actually getting a spark at the plugs when the engine is turned over by conecting one of the plug leads to a spare spark
plug thats sat on an earthed surface ?
If all is ok in the spark department and youre sure the distributor timing is approx correct then proceed to squirt a small amount of fuel into the
mouth of the carb whilst someone else is turning the engine over.. If this seems to make the engine catch (and almost start) more than it was before
then the fault has to be fuel related and you first need to remove the pipe between fuel pump and carb and check that fuel pumps out under pressure
when someone is turning the engine over. If the pump is delivering fuel ok you next need to check the spec of the VV carb you are running to see if
it has an inbuilt fuel shutoff valve. If so then this needs to be connected to a live supply (on when the ignition is on) so that shutoff valve is
held open.
That would be the kiddie, just as a temporary measure only, run a wire from the battery positve to the lucar terminal on the switch and then try
starting it. IF you take it out you will have to seal and blank the hole off, they were fitted on the VV carb for a reason. If neccessary you could
always put a switch in the line to act as a secondary security measure until you wire it into the ignition or replace THAT carb with a or some proper
carbs.
Edit bit,
The VV carb was great when it worked well, but it could go into some spurious fail modes that could give all sorts of non start and running problems.
Mostly they got junked for either a single weber or multiple choke/body webers.
The needle wears, the needle sleeve wears, the diaphrams fail, the floats could fail/go into over fueling/flooding mode and they were generally a pain
in the AR$E.
[Edited on 4/3/12 by jollygreengiant]
Bingo! We may have found our problem then.
SWMBO has just requested dinner so once I've solved that problem i will put a temporary live to that terminal ad fingers crossed that's all
the problem is!
quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Thanks Andy, any idea what it looks like?
May have just had a eureka money actually as I thinking
Know the bit your taking about...
While I go check that out does this photo of My distributor look right?
In the Haynes the cutout is in between the two arms and on mine its directly above one?
When you put a live feed to the valve it will respond
with a solid click.To remove it it will unscrew,you should find a
13mm ish hex in the end nearest the carb.
Andy D; you are right,when i look again,it isnt lined up.It needs shifting around so the pick ups line up.
My mate has a weber twin choke and manifold from a Sierra for sale if you
want to replace what you have.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
Andy D, that's what i was getting at. How do I correct this?
Lotusmadandy - got that Sussed now but think the above is what's stopping it from starting.
I have got two other carbs, a webber 34 ich and a webber twinchoke but these are setup for a 2,0 pinto, so wanted to use this one for now as it's
the one that was running the engine prior to me buying it.
As Andy d says,you should be able to 'nudge' the pickups around to line up with the
trigger by using screwdriver or similar.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Andy D, that's what i was getting at. How do I correct this?
Lotusmadandy - got that Sussed now but think the above is what's stopping it from starting.
I have got two other carbs, a webber 34 ich and a webber twinchoke but these are setup for a 2,0 pinto, so wanted to use this one for now as it's the one that was running the engine prior to me buying it.
Hurry up, Top gear's on shortly. 
Ok trigger wheel moved and looks as below, fuel cut off has a live feed and clicks as it should, but still won't start
So the little metal prongs need to be in line with the Mark on the dizzy? Then the trigger wheel prong moved in line with that again?
Edit: where did andyds last post go?
[Edited on 4/3/12 by theduck]
The rotor is now pointing at the mark and the cut off is wired,it should start.
Is the dizzy in correctly and not 180deg out? does it show any signs of wanting
to fire? Its not flooded is it?
I deleted my last post because i realised i was talking bollocks.The rotor should be lined up with the little mark,not the segments.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
Doesn't sound like it wants to fire at all. Just cranks over on the starter.
When you say is the distributor in correctly go you mean the distributor itself or the leads on the cap?
Edit; ah ok, that's fine then.
[Edited on 4/3/12 by theduck]
The dizzy. Make sure the rotor is pointing at no 1 with the engine timed at
top dead centre.If it is 180deg out it wont go.
Right ok, at the moment with cyl 1 at tdc the rotor arm is pointing roughly at 4/5 o'clock if 12 o'clock is towards the block.
Put the dizzy cap on and make sure that the lead
is going to no1.
If it is going to no4,then it is 180degs out.
If it is,take the dizzy out and rotate the shaft to point at no1.
Andy
I'm lost, when i put the cap on I can pick which lead goes on which terminal, so I put the lead to cyl1 on the terminal the rotor points to.
u2u sent
If there's no fireing at all, not even a backfire, I suspect there's either no ignition at all or no fuel. If the plugs are wet, you have fuel, and no or not good ignition. Dry plugs, mean no fuel.
I checked the spark plug and it's definitely sparking.
Not had it out again since trying to start it so don't know if they are wet.
Lotusmadandy sent me a u2u with some checks for timing which are all ok.
Is there anyway the cam can be timed wrongly on the cam pulley?
There is a woodruff key on the cam,so unless
someone has left it out the cam cant move.
Check the compression on no 1 when its on the firing stroke.
If all is ok then no problem.
Andy
Cheers.
Will try a different carb tomorrow
quote:
Originally posted by lotusmadandy
There is a woodruff key on the cam,so unless
someone has left it out the cam cant move.
Check the compression on no 1 when its on the firing stroke.
If all is ok then no problem.
Andy
quote:
Originally posted by lotusmadandy
The dizzy. Make sure the rotor is pointing at no 1 with the engine timed at
top dead centre.If it is 180deg out it wont go.
If in doubt turn the dizzy round half a turn and try again.
Simple things......
Check you have the correct firing order and that the rotor arm is spinning the same way as you are numbering the plug leads.
Quick squirt of Easystart down the carbotooter will tell you if you are looking for an ignition fault or a fuelling fault.
Then we're looking at compression testing.....making sure the valves are all closing.
Just to confirm the timing checks that have been done. Cam lines up with tdc Mark, crank lined up with Mark on pulley, distributor as photos shows
above.
Tried easy start down the carb and still doesn't fire.
Checked spark at plug and it does spark.
Checked rotation of rotor arm and that matches lead order.
Have cranked off battery alone and with jump lead to try and eliminate possible weak battery.
Other than these what else cannot be? Am thinking this morning either compression or coil, leaning towards coil as same fault on two engines?
Try getting an old spark plug and opening the gap to 5-6mm and see if it still sparks. If it does, I doubt the coil is at fault.
Did you have the butterflies open on the carb when you tried the Easystart? Is there any way there is air getting sucked into the inlet? Dodgey servo
or open tappings etc? If the engine is sucking air in, rather than fuel......?
In my experience, Easystart will fire with a very weak spark. Even if the timing was miles out, it would backfire.
Ok so getting back in the garage tonight. Plan of action is as follows:
Crank engine
Remove plug to see if wet with fuel
If dry change carb and try again and hope it starts.
If wet try an opened out plug to check strength of spark and come back for advice. Lol
quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Ok so getting back in the garage tonight. Plan of action is as follows:
Crank engine
Remove plug to see if wet with fuel
If dry change carb and try again and hope it starts.
If wet try an opened out plug to check strength of spark and come back for advice. Lol
Think it has een suggested, tried easy start and and not even a cough.
It's teasing me now!!
Tried the spark plug test and got good spark on this plug
So I changed carb to the 34ich, remembering to connect a live to the fuel cut off and this is the result
May need to click picture for video
Link first video. http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/cec283c4.mp4
Link to better video. http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/15db3c77.mp4
Owelly just seen what you said about servo. Can I blank off the servo outlet to eliminate that as a problem??
In your second vid, it did sound as though you were getting a slight chuff every now and then. I havent read the complete post but was it a running engine when you got it, have you stripped any of it? Battery didn't sound in the best of health! I would be inclined to check the valve timing, ignition timing, and ensure that the carb was clean without any blocked jets. Check that the earth connection from the battery is good to the engine. HTH Ray
Engine was sold to me as running though I have not heard it running.
Came with a VV carb which I couldn't get any life out of at all so swapped to this webber 34ich which seems to be better but still not starting.
have tried easy start also and that is still the best I am getting. Timing has all been checked and all line up with relevant marks.
Could it be a vacuum leak? Can j block off the pipe to the servo to remove that from the equation?
Yup, block off pipe to servo.
As said, you can hear it firing but I would say it needs to be spinning over faster.
I know you have said that you have checked the ignition timing but I known proper grown-up mechanics fit plug leads to thr correct firing order, but
with the rotor arm turning the wrong way so you have the timing correct for just one stroke.
Lost count how many times I've checked it to be honest. The arm spins clock wise and myleads are positioned
4 2
3 1
I have tried it rotated 180degrees to be certain I wasn't 180out and got no firing at all then.
So it sounds as though now maybe my battery is too weak? I actually had jump leads on in that video as well!
Your firing order seems to be correct 1,3,4,2 and you have done
all of the checks for timing.
I have just watched both videos and it is turning over slowly but you
can hear the engine catching on 1 cylinder.It could be
that your battery is discharged and there isnt enough power to
turn it over and give a nice fat spark.
Andy
SWMBO is at home so just got her to put multimeter on the battery and it's showing 12v
Well that doesnt seem a million miles away.
I have just put a meter on mine and it shows 12.7v
I will still say that the engine is turning over slowly though.
Andy
Your battery base voltage should be 12.6 Volts so it might well be not strong enough.
Ok so i'll get the jump leads in it later and see what it's putting out with those on.
What else could cause slow cranking?
Edit: will check and clean earthing point and the bellhousing to starter mounts as well.
[Edited on 9/3/12 by theduck]
What else could cause slow cranking?
The engine hasn't been rebuilt has it? A fresh engine can be very tight
to turn,many years ago we sometimes had to tow freshly built pinto's to get them going.
Andy
Not rebuilt, with exception of bolting on the required Sierra bits its as it was as it came out the cortina.
quote:
Originally posted by lotusmadandy
Well that doesnt seem a million miles away.
I have just put a meter on mine and it shows 12.7v
I will still say that the engine is turning over slowly though.
Andy
What about the starter. When i had my crossflow rebuilt the starter was just not up to the job, i checked everything, timing, new battery, jump leads, plugs, earths, wires, you name it, turned out that the starter just wasn't up to the job anymore. Put a new starter motor on and bobs your uncle it fired up no problem.
Just checked following voltages
Between battery terminals 12.62v
Between starter +ve and earth 12.51v
Between battery terminals when cranking 9.7v
[Edited on 10/3/12 by theduck]
I would say your battery is knackered! I'm sure someone will confirm.
Am inclined to agree. Hoping it's just battery though and not starter as well.
Have just tried it with jump leads on and got no improvement. Infact battery drained quite quickly.
Quick video to show that once battery/starter issue is sorted we will have life though
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/5c9b530a.mp4
If you want any further advice/searching then i strongly recommend this forum.
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?179-X-Flow-Pinto-BDA-and-Twincam
There are some blokes on there that really are pinto specialists. You'll have to register but there's loads of info on peoples pinto and
crossflow woe's. I found it most helpful.
Hope you get it sorted soon
Regards
Leon
So new battery and...
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/60391456.mp4
Thanks for the link Leon. Will check it out.
Had another look at dizzy timing and did appear slightly out, in the sense the pick up points weren't aligned.
And a quick video, it's definitely closer to starting!
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/75bd4996.mp4
Got it started, kind of. Getting huge backfires though
Move the dizzy until it runs without backfiring.
It is firing while the valves are still open.
Andy
IT LIVES!
But... It won't idle, and I have smoke coming out a hole on the manifold I thought was a coolant connection... Anyone tell me what should go in
here?
Oh and of cause, a running video!
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/stumac1985/c438f366.mp4
Bit of research and pretty sure I'm right and it is a coolant connection and it's just coolant burning off.
Time to rebuild the front end and connect up coolant system!