Been a while since I posted, still working on the Anglia but also still keeping an eye on the kit car scene.

Anyway, been thinking about bike engine cars and what engines outside the standard Gixxer, ZX10/14, Fireblade, Hyabusa and R1 might work well. Stumbled across the VFR1200F, v4, 170hp/100ftlb at the wheels, redline at 10k rpm, slipper clutch, shaft drive (final ratio 2.54) and running bikes available from a round 2010 for £2500 upwards and looks an interesting option. The shaft drive means the engine would be in the same orientation as the bike so hopefully no oil surge issues, only negative may be that it would sit slightly on the drivers side which is not the best for weight distribution.

One thing I can’t seem to work out or find info on is whether the drive for the shaft turns the right way to connect to a car diff (Sierra, mx5, freelancer, BMW) or whether the diff would end inverting. Anyone know?

Oh, and if you are brave it comes with the option of a DCT gearbox.

Anyway, anyone else looked into this engine or even used it and have comments on it suitability for a kit car, either a seven or a mid engine layout?

Pic of engine for reference showing shaft drive output.



Untitled by A H, on Flickr

That looks a cracking engine and the DCT would be my choice

Thinking a bit more, as the engine will sit more on the driver’s you will probably need reverse master cylinders mounted on top of the pedal box. I think the DAC Rush did this so very possible but would allow the ending to be immediately forward of the drivers pedal box.


Untitled by A H, on Flickr

Hey - i'm sure you've thought of this but the drive will go the 'wrong' way so you'll need to have a backwards diff like a front diff from a sierra cosworth etc.

@adampage thanks, this was one of the things I wasn’t sure of. Could not find which way the drive shaft rotated. Can you just run the standard Sierra diff upside down to get the wheel rotation the other way, similar to turning the Porsche 911 box upside down for mid engine applications like Ultima, GT0 etc? You might need to add an oil filler tap on the bottom (now top) but not a difficult thing to do and it will obviously need new mounts/cradle.

[Edited on 1/7/24 by Ugg10]

I guess you could also use a reverse box like those available from Elite or Quaife and run it permanently in reverse mode. Not sure how long it would last though using it like this.

... so this is how I think about it....

That output is on the left of the bike (i.e. the shaft runs down the left of the back wheel).

Therefore if you think about it, it has to rotate clockwise (looking at the back of the engine as in your photo below) to make the wheel rotate forwards.
Same as a VMax, a BMW K1600GT, a GoldWing and plenty of others.

There are a handful of other bikes (Pan European, older BMW K1150/1200/1250s, etc) where the shaft is on the right side of the bike / back wheel, so they rotate anti-clockwise. No idea why they choose each one and why they change them (BMW flipped the K and R series bikes).

Now as i understand it you could just flip a sierra diff but the gears would be running backwards constantly (flipping it doesn't change the input, only the output), so it would wear prematurely. Same with running a reverse box backwards, can certainly be done but might be risky.

So that's why i think the ideal option would be a front cosworth diff (or from another car with a 4wd system and a separate front diff - Porsche 911 Carrera 4 maybe . But they're not very easy to get hold of and could be expensive.

Remember - It that also means the weight distribution is different. In yours the block will be right of centre, but if you had one with the shaft on the other side, the weight would be left of centreline.

So - I think it would be an easier idea if you could find an engine from a 'bike with driveshaft on the right' but unfortunately there's no VFR like that and not all that many others..... Like I say, Pan Euro, older BMWs, an oooold Kawasaki K1300, and a few others.

Hope you can make it work because I think it sounds cool!
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Many thanks again for the info. As you said, spec of the engine is very appealing but integration into the car, especially a Seven style, does have a number of down sides , namely, engine rotation direction and finding suitable diff and it being located on the drivers side making getting a good weight distribution difficult.

Re weight distribution, it would lend itself nicely to using a pair to power both axles separately. Maybe both in the back would fit easier though. The semi auto box certainty avoid one problem, of the two engines ending up in different gears...

It might be worth looking at Trikes, they're usually shaft drive, wonder if they just swap over a Reliant axle? Maybe check their forums.
There are actually quite a few Sierra 4x4 front diffs on ebay but not sure how you get the driveshafts and prop set up. There might be another way.

Or if you've not bought the engine yet - I had a car with an ST1100 Pan European, I've seen BMW K or R engines (just get an earlier twin as more recent have switched to 'left-swingarms', I think Moto Guzzi are right side, and I would love an old Kawazaki Z1300 because they sound awesome....

Good luck...

I'm going to plead ignorance here, couldn't you mount the engine centrally and just have the driveshaft running at an angle? It only appears to be maybe six inches at most, maybe the passenger might lose a bit of foot space? Passenger comfort vs a 'normal' pedal box and better weight distribution?

quote:

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Originally posted by Slimy38
I'm going to plead ignorance here, couldn't you mount the engine centrally and just have the driveshaft running at an angle? It only appears to be maybe six inches at most, maybe the passenger might lose a bit of foot space? Passenger comfort vs a 'normal' pedal box and better weight distribution?

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Absolutely perfect for a LHD car though!