i have just taken the head off my standard 2ltr pinto
when i looked at the cylinder bores its not looking good
i have quite a large step where the piston rings reach top dead center i will measure it with a mic but i am already exspeting the worst
so has anyone gone 2.1 with a pinto who did it and how much did it cost
i have seen the pistons in burtons catologue i know they need boring out but how much needs to come off the block height
this started as a cheap rebuild!
cheers dave

If you are worried about cost then use overbored Pinto ones. Straight swap (after boring of course) and cheaper too. The wear ridges are not really much of a worry unless you intend to use new rings, in which case you get ridge dodger rings, which are machined to miss the wear ridge.

'but how much needs to come off the block height'

Why bother lowering the block (i presume your intention is to keep capcity the same) bore the liners, fit the bigger pistons etc. and enjoy the increased capacity.

[Edited on 6/3/05 by clbarclay]

Different compression heights on the 2.8i pistons means the compression ratio goes to pot without block changes.

IMHO it is quite costly to go to 2.1. you need to take 2 or 3 goes to get the bores to size, you need to skim the block and the BHP per £ spent is nowhere near as good as spending the money on getting the head right, a good cam and say twin 45's etc.

Cheers

Mark

If you just get the 2.0 rebore pistons not 2.1 etc. pistons then there should be no major changes to compression ratio, if at all.

to get block bored to 2.1 l and skimmed expect to pay about £80. Loads of places around that can do it so phone around for best 'reputable' quote.

If you are going to get your oversize pistons from Burtons expect to pay in excess of £100 for a set without the rings...

HTH

cheers

[Edited on 7/3/05 by DaveFJ]

Dave,
Have you read Des Hammils Pinto tuning book? Well worth a read.

Cheers,
Darren.

darren yes i have des hamils book
i like the idea of the 2.1 with fiesta diesel rods but i dont know what des means when he says that the pistons will need teflon buttons because the guedon pin fixing is differnt in the fiesta rods
i have a 285 cam and 1.8" inlet valves
i plan to port the head at work
i can get acess to a milling machine
i also have a set of twin 40's i told the wife i needed them so nothing sticks out of the bonnet
so i have a good base spec to start with
its just that i wont to stop working on the engine and finish the car
so to go 2.1 it will cost £80 for machining £100 for the pistons and how much for the rings£50 ish so total is £230
compared to how much for a rebore with standard oversize pistons and rings
thanks dave

Teflon buttons go at each end of the gudgeon pin to stop it moving about and scoring the bores. These are needed as I presume Pintos have gudgeon pins that are interference fit in the rod and Fizog diesel rods use circlips in the pistons.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dblissett
darren yes i have des hamils book
i like the idea of the 2.1 with fiesta diesel rods but i dont know what des means when he says that the pistons will need teflon buttons because the guedon pin fixing is differnt in the fiesta rods
i have a 285 cam and 1.8" inlet valves
i plan to port the head at work
i can get acess to a milling machine
i also have a set of twin 40's i told the wife i needed them so nothing sticks out of the bonnet
so i have a good base spec to start with
its just that i wont to stop working on the engine and finish the car
so to go 2.1 it will cost £80 for machining £100 for the pistons and how much for the rings£50 ish so total is £230
compared to how much for a rebore with standard oversize pistons and rings
thanks dave

---

Assuming that you don't get porous bores when you take them out to 93mm. Not all Pinto blocks will take the 2.8i pistons without the castings becoming too thin.

mine is a 205 injection block so it will go to 93mm
it looks like i might have to dig deep and get the 2.8 pistons
i dont see the point in going to the fiesta diesel rods when its only a road car
at the end of the day its still a pinto and if i spend much more on it, it might of been better spending it on a zetec.
i also want to stay pinto for the non q plate
thanks dave

Once your car is registered, you can change engines to your haerts contentand not risk a Q plate.

dare I suggest telling the dvla of an engine change in your donor? you did fit the zetec to the sierra donor before dismantling it?...didn't you...errr

If the engine number on the donor v5 is the one for the zetec then you may get away with it....

not that i would suggest such dishonesty but I am sure there is someone on here that "used" a "bike engined sierra" as a donor.....

i will be sticking with the pinto as i have a full stainless exhaust system ready for it
its just that i seem to be spend more and more every time i take somthing apart
when will i stop finding more faults and start rebuilding it
dave

Slightly off thread, but I have been offered a 2.4 pinto out of a US Mustang - is it any use?

Dave,

One of my future projects after SVA is rebuilding to 2.1. I too am starting with the 2.0i pinto engine. I read somewhere near the beginning of the book that the 2.0i had slightly better conrods to start with. Key word here is 'slightly' better. IIRC he says they will rev reliably to about 300rpm more than the early rods. This means for fast road / occasional track we already have a decent base for a 2.1. 2.8 pistons, new rings, decking (i havent read up on this yet), good oil pressure etc and you should have an engine (with twin 40's) that will give reliable 135bhp with good torque. Better head and twin 45's or bike carbs and mappable ignition and 150bhp should be attainable. Personally i have no intention of using new alternative rods, id rather put the money into decent bearings etc for road reliability. I think the biggest problem with the text books is working out where to stop as there is no clear step between what is OK for the road and what is essential for race. For me torque is king, bhp just shows potential.

Keep your eyes open on ebay etc if you are not in a hurry, there was a set of 2.8 pistons on not so long back.

Ive just done some of the head mods, although not quite as extreme. It took a while but not too hard to do. At least with injected head there is less to remove, port throats were still restricted though. Ive fitted FR32 Kent cam with new std springs and got no problems with spring bind. Head is skimmed (40 though) and valves / seats re-done. For now this is going onto 2.0 bottom end with 38DGAS, later to be turned into 2.1 and bike carbs / megajolt.

HTH,
Darren.

hello darren
the injection rods are ok up to 7000rpm with standard pistons and a extra 300rpm with forged pistons
i have decieded that to use forged pistons and holbay rods is the only way to go above 7500rpm and its not worth spending that kind of money on a road going pinto i plan to limit the revs at 6800rpm with the megajolt
mark
i believe the 2.4 is different to a uk pinto

my thoughts are if it needs a rebore then i might as well have it bored out to 2.1 as the cost will be almost the same
i will use the injection rods and limit the revs to 6800rpm
i just want to stop taking things apart and start building somthing
cheers dave

A rare posting for me these days, but here goes: Oh and I post all prices as examples, I am not using the Forum to tout for work!

To rebore a Pinto to +.5mm, supply KS or Mahle pistons, complete with rings and fit them to your rods: £160, inclusive.

To create a 2.1 Pinto - Bore the block to 93.5 (or 94mm), from its standard bore size of 90.8mm, supply KS pistons and rings (2.8 Capri type), fit them to your Pinto rods, deck block by the 1.4mm necessary - £210, inclusive.

To convert your kit to 2.2 you need to do the following (and I've done lots): Bore block to 94mm (no problem with 205 or 202 blocks). Offset grind crankshaft throw taking stroke up to 80mm. This is possible by reducing big end jornal size down to that of 1600 diesel escort or fiesta rods (note 1600 and not 1800). Use 1600 diesel rods which have to be modified by reduction in width to suit 2.8 piston at the little end and the narrower 2.0 Pinto journal. Use 2.8 Pistons and machine 2.2mm off the crown (as you now have a longer stroke and they want to poke out of the top of the block). The gudgeon pins need shortening. Teflon buttons can be used but starve gudgeon pin of oil. Best way is to machine circlip grooves in piston and retain pin with wire circlips - as with most race pistons and all diesels. The crankshaft assembly (crank, front pulley, flywheel) must be dynamically balanced after this amount of work).

If you brought me a block, crank, flywheel and rods, I would machine your block, crank, pistons, gudgeon pins, rods, lighten the flywheel, balance it all, supply the pistons, circlips and bearings for £550

The difference in performance and feel of a 2.2 from a 2.0 Pinto is unbelievable - and far better than a Zetec!

The stadium boys all rev 2.0 Pintos to 7500 minimum. The weak part is the rod, not the piston. The piston becomes suspect when incorrect ignition timing or mixture is used.

The Diesel rods are pretty well unbreakable but the point of the 2.2 engine is to utilise its grunt rather than scream it.

There you go!

"and machine 2.2mm off the crown "

Surely that is going to majorly compramise the strength / reliability of the piston!!!!!!!!

Especially if it is a cast KS piston?????

I reckon you may have written this down wrong??

hello david are you on the A46 as you go into newark
i live in gedling nottingham so its very close
i think i will go for the 2.1
i have just put a bore mic down the cylinders the worn diameter measures 90.88
and the top part wear there has been no wear is 90.85mm
david how much do you charge to ballance a lightend clutch and crank assembly
cheers dave
ps did you sell your locost in the end

[Edited on 10/3/05 by dblissett]

No, not written down wrong, 2.2mm is machined off the piston crown, and yes they are up to it.

Yep, sold the Locost, now have an old TVR - much more comfortable!

Dave - no, I am not the garage on the A46 but run my own business dealing with competition stuff only. I am closer to Gedling than Newark though. Send me a U2U ref: the crank job.

Hi David,

Interesting stuff. Nice to see my little baby has potential! Not that I'm really planning to tune it that much- but interesting all the same.

I seem to remember reading somewhere about taking Pintos to 2.3 or even 2.4 using oversize 2.9 pistons or something. Any opinions on this? Or is it just a good way to get through lots of engines/pounds??

Cheers,
James

hello james the 2.1 is done by using the 2.8 v6 ford pistons
the 2.2 is using the same pistons but the crank stroke is increased by offset grinding the crank
this can only be done when a different conrod is used with a smaller diameter bigend (fiesta 1600 diesel) as dave walker has said in this thread
i dont know how you get to 2.4 as i think the 2.8 pistons are about the maximum diameter you can safely bore a pinto out to
i can only assume a 2.4 must use a special crank lots of money that i dont have
two kids wife etc etc
cheers dave

[Edited on 10/3/05 by dblissett]

I have been reliably been informed that the 2.4 is a taller US engine. The one I have been offered if sitting in the remains of a 80's mustang

thanks for the offer mark but i will stick with my uk pinto everthing fits it at the moment
cheers dave

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Allanson
I have been reliably been informed that the 2.4 is a taller US engine. The one I have been offered if sitting in the remains of a 80's mustang

---

Yes, the American Pinto is completely different and physically much bigger and heavier.

The 2.3 and 2.4 Pintos assiciated with UK motorsport are using purpose made steel crankshafts and rods, giving longer stroke. The stroke on these also requires that the bottom sides of the block are fettled away to clear the rods as they rotate.

These engines were originally developed by Holbay. The same cranks and rods are now used in the alloy blocked Millingtons.