Hi All

I'm trying to work out which engine to choose for my track build. It will be CEC (although I do have a spare 2005 R1 sitting on the bench...)

It will be a track car although may get used for sprints/hillclimbs and / or the occassional race in the Super Saloons and Roadsports class of the WRDA championship

I'm trying to work out which engine gives the most 'power to pound' ratio whilst being light as well.

I have bike (R1) throttle bodies and an Emerald ECU so that's a starting point.

The class structure for sprints and hillclimbs is up to 1700 cc (Zetec SE or Vauxhall?), up to 2 litre (Zetec and others) and over 2 litre (not sure if I want to go there!)

The race class is unlimited capacity.

Any thoughts guys?

I don't want to start another BEC / CEC debate by the way!

Wyn

I've seen a Striker with one of the Yamaha Puma 1.7 Zetecs (is that the SE?) and it's a very cute piece of kit! I don't know what bits are available such as cams etc. though....

Coose

The 17 is the Zetec SE but it also has variable valves.

I saw one in a Fury last year and it looked so right - quite small and nice and light!

Wyn

Rover K-series is light too.

Duratec if you have the cash

Which is the busiest class ?

Up here (Scotland) The bigger sports cars tend not to be well supported.

ie If you are pot hunting which has the least competition.

A 1.6 K will have a handling advantage over other 1.6 and bigger engines.

I used to have an mr2 with the 4age engine, That went well for a 1.6 (120 bhp). I know people have put these engines in locosts and they must go well.

Only down point is that the gearbox isn't easy to come accross.

K series and ZetecSE are about the same weight. Either would make a good competition engine, but 1700 VTEC ZetecSE may make a little more power.

Ford Duratec, not the cheapest but the power people are getting from them is in a different league to previous Ford engines (well they would be, they're Mazda engines)

About half-a-metric-****load lighter than previous Fords too.

[Edited on 19/1/08 by UncleFista]

Thanks guys

The 2 litre Duratec really appeals although this won't be a cheap option! An up to 2 litre car would be quicker in the open race class though. A Zetec ST 170 might be a good option???

Wyn

I would vote 2.0 zetec seeing as that's what I'm having.

However....

I know that a Vauxhall or a Duratec would spank it.

Ho hum

quote:

---

Originally posted by lsdweb

I'm trying to work out which engine gives the most 'power to pound' ratio whilst being light as well.

---

i wont argue against all the other options , id stick a 5 cyl volvo in there , if there was room , lots of torque .

The 1.7 zetec se in my puma gives 125 bhp as standard and with a better air filter and exhaust will give 130 bhp with no other mods.

the 1.7 from the racing puma has 155 bhp as standard.

Tuneing parts are expensive but in standard form it is a sweet engine and revs keenly from 3000rpm to 6500

Paul

Hi Wyn

In the same situation, there would only be one choice I'd make:
20V 4AGE on eBay

I've done a couple of trackdays with 4age powered Strikers also running and have been in Raw's old 20V demonstrator. No messing, this motor is a peach!

Hi the zetec se is good but if you are going to try and get it to 175 it gets expensive. Speak to MAWMAW on here he is the guy in KITS running one. Or pumawestie who is running the 245bhp one.

If you looking for 200 you either got to go zetec or vx but the vx is a bit heavier but gives more torque. Or as said look at the 4age but again if trying for 200 ish it gets expensive as has been proved by the works striker of Garry goodyear in kits.

£ for £ and reliability i would go vx or zetec. Giving 200 bhp

Cheers Matt

1.8 k series can be tuned to 190 bhp without too much hassle. Also it is lighter than a 2.0 zetec. My elise has the 190bhp k series and it's pretty quick. My mk indy will have a 120bhp k series to begin with, with a view to increasing it to 190 bhp, so should end up being quicker than the elise!
I reckon the k weighs about 90kg plus gearbox.

Also could turbo or supercharging be an option?

edited to correct spelling errors!

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Hammerhead]

Thanks guys

Is this the Duratec?

Wyn

quote:

---

Originally posted by procomp
Hi the zetec se is good but if you are going to try and get it to 175 it gets expensive. Speak to MAWMAW on here he is the guy in KITS running one. Or pumawestie who is running the 245bhp one.

If you looking for 200 you either got to go zetec or vx but the vx is a bit heavier but gives more torque. Or as said look at the 4age but again if trying for 200 ish it gets expensive as has been proved by the works striker of Garry goodyear in kits.

£ for £ and reliability i would go vx or zetec. Giving 200 bhp

Cheers Matt

---

im gonna have to say 4age, revs well and later versions not far off 130bhp standard, which aint too bad for an old motor.

HTH

Rob

Thanks guys.

I'm trying to do a deal on a 2 litre Duratec which is a little bit more pricey than the Zetec / 4AGE but a more modern engine and almost 20kg lighter than the Zetec!

The bellhousing is the tricky bit although I read somewhere that it will bolt straight on to an MX5 box (being a Mazda designed engine).

Wyn

That's a bonus if thats the case. The Mx-5 box is one of the sweetest shifting there is... Boxster and S2000 are the only two that I've thought were as rewarding.

Tim

I can't remember where I read that so it could be absolute cr*p!

MX5 gearboxes aren't as cheap as a Type 9 either!
Rescued attachment mx5GBX.jpg

caterham bellhousing, duratec to caterham box which is same as type 9.

as an aside, quite a few caterham c400 racers swapping to a new box (quaife instead of fettled caterham own brand) for the new regs this year (including our car).

Worth a phone call, I can ask graham how much he wants for the box from our car.

Not cheap but you only buy it once and it will still be expensive when you come to sell it some time in the future.

Thanks NS Dev

If you could get me a price although I suspect it may be out of my range!

It looks like I'll end up with a real mongrel of a car - Ford engine (Mazda design), Mazda gearbox possibly, Swift single seater uprights, Subaru diff (depending on weight), Emerald ECU (borrowed form my single seater), Polo rad and that's before I start building and looking for bits that'll fit!

Wyn

Wyn

I have a couple of potential sources for MX-5 gearboxes.

U2U me if you want some numbers!

Tempted towards a Zetec! The cost of a Duratec will work out about a grand more than a Zetec and I know more about them.

There's a weight penalty and ultimate power would be down but I need to think of budget as well.

I'm looking at the Welsh Championship and a decent '7' should be quite competitive.....

I have a spare MX5 box, not sure about the postage though

quote:

---

I have a spare MX5 box, not sure about the postage though

---

Hi after a quick read of the regs you will be more than ok with a 180-200 hp zetec. The 750 kits with 160 hp 1.8 zetec lap in 63 seconds. So a 180-200 will be more than adequate to get you below the 60 sec mark where the ballast is then added.

I might see you there one day as i really like Pembrey as a circuit. They seem to have 1 or 2 races at pembrey .

Cheers Matt

Edit. Just thought if you want a genuine ford rocket box helical gears not straight cut. ( will bolt straight to the zetec ) I have a fully refurbed one sat in the lockup. U2U if interested.

[Edited on 29/1/08 by procomp]

Thanks Matt. I'd done a similar rough calculation that a Zetec '7'should be able to break the 60 second mark - so, when you're starting to add ballast a Zetec doesn't appear to be a bad option!

I like Pembrey, partly because of this !!

I'll U2U you about the gearbox.

Regards

Wyn

I noticed an article in the classic ford mag this month seems SBD have got over 300bhp from a Duratec. Might be worth a look if you plan on going that route.