Nice article in PPC has given the boost (amounst jeeps and scooters) to go for a turbo conversion running LPG.
Sounds like a great way to cheaper, extra power!
I'm wondering about the practicality of running lpg full time.. there is a Total garage close that sells the stuff, but how do you reckon I would
fair on track day?
Any one running LPG??? with a turbo??
Any restrictions running an LPG system in a 7? I'm not that familiar (yet) with LPG.
Steve
Funy, Having read that I am now reading up on it.. The idea of tubo-ing the zetec with out compresion mods sounded awsome.
Its a Liquid lpg injection system..
I run an LPG system on my Golf. That's not a Turbo though.
Modern injection systems will easily run on a turbo engine because the fuel requirements are mapped just like petrol injection.
If, as stated above, the car in question has liquid phase injection, then that's a whole different can of worms.
There really are few people who will touch a liquid phase system.
Sequential gas injection is the proverbial piece of pi,,,, though.
Mine is completely closed loop and so consantly tunes itself for stochiometric.
You can still get in about it and alter the map though if you want to.
Easy Peasy.
You really need a liquid phase injection system for any serious amount of power on the turbocharged application because a vapour phase system a) doesn't deliver enough gas for high specific outputs, and b) doesn't provide enough cooling.
I have run cars for a few years on LPG, p38 range rover on venturi system 100k miles, system backfired occasionally and restricted performance.
P38 range rover on full time sequential LPG system, again 100k miles but a bit of valve ressesion, no discernable loss of performance.
Now an XK8 on sequential system that allows you to bleed in fuel by mapping, 10k miles so far, this is very good, £36 to travel 300 miles, 100% petrol
when you floor the throttle so no lose of performance.
Gas is good!
To start with you'll need to consider a second fuel tank, and all the plumbing/wiring too. Iirc lpg gives 70% of the economy and a small
reduction in power, although surely it can be adjusted (maybe adjusted to give more power?)
As for racing it I dunno, you got all that extra weight would it be worth it for cheaper fuel?
As an aside it doesn't run full time, it can't start on lpg and needs 5 mins to warm up. I don't know if this is any different
now I got all this info a few years ago when it was all pretty new
You can run solely on LPG with some setups.
Also the tanks are VERY heavy, think it would blunt your performance a bit and you'd have to think about where you were going to put it weight
distribution wise.
Also refuelling at a track day could be a PITA, its not like you can fit extra gas in Jerry cans.
(although you could do something with a calor gas bottle and a hand pump but thats a totally different kettle of fish).
while LPG is probably cheaper , it doesnt mae sense to use it if you could get your hands on E85 , which has a much higher octane rating , therefore
lots more boost .
if only this country would catch on !
there a 16v turbo in sweden (2.3 redblock) which makes 900 hp at 2.7kg boost on E85 , hes about 200 hp shy with normal unleaded .
IIRC LPG has a higher octane rating (~110) than E85.
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
As an aside it doesn't run full time, it can't start on lpg and needs 5 mins to warm up. I don't know if this is any different now I got all this info a few years ago when it was all pretty new
Hmm, sorry but whats the difference between gas injection and liquid injection? Different tanks and availability perchance??
PPC article says lpg is perfectly suited to turbo engines as the octane is higher @ 110.
My whole idea was to build a zetec turbo wholly for lpg with one tank.. no petrol system at all.
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I have run cars for a few years on LPG, p38 range rover on venturi system 100k miles, system backfired occasionally and restricted performance.
P38 range rover on full time sequential LPG system, again 100k miles but a bit of valve ressesion, no discernable loss of performance.
Now an XK8 on sequential system that allows you to bleed in fuel by mapping, 10k miles so far, this is very good, £36 to travel 300 miles, 100% petrol when you floor the throttle so no lose of performance.
Gas is good!
quote:
(although you could do something with a calor gas bottle and a hand pump but thats a totally different kettle of fish).
If they can make a pure lpg system then maybe I should do that, I'm quite used to my 2l tdci consumption lol.
I heard they can covert diesel engines but the only person I found that did it ran the maths for me and I'd have to do about 120,000 miles a year
for 9 years to be worth it... Unless anyone knows otherwise?
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Regarding power. There is less calorific value in LPG compared to petrol, so to make the same power, you just stick a bit more gas in. That's where the higher consumption comes from.
I get 29 mpg versus 40 on petrol, so that's 72.5 %.
yeah E85 is 104-105 octane , bit like race fuel , but you dont need another tank or anything like that .
Oh is that the alcohol stuff? Seen that in the morissons near liverpool airport but after the biodiesel debacle I wouldn't risk ruining my girlfriend's car for 91p petrol
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Oh is that the alcohol stuff? Seen that in the morissons near liverpool airport but after the biodiesel debacle I wouldn't risk ruining my girlfriend's car for 91p petrol
Thought as much, good job I didn't bother
yeah , the stoich ratio is different , cant just stick it in , well thats what the missus said .
91p a litre ? still 15p a litre cheaper , and you can make more power .
here , have a read , bit off topic really , i dont know anything about LPG ! so cant really add anythin purposeful
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=73061
[Edited on 12/10/08 by Volvorsport]
How much is it to remap an engine? No doubt it can recover the price :-)
The problem with E85 is that you use roughly1.5 times as much so at present prices it is actually more expensive than petrol.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
yeah , the stoich ratio is different , cant just stick it in , well thats what the missus said .
91p a litre ? still 15p a litre cheaper , and you can make more power .
here , have a read , bit off topic really , i dont know anything about LPG ! so cant really add anythin purposeful
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=73061
[Edited on 12/10/08 by Volvorsport]
Bloody hell with 101 octane? Isn't normal unleaded 95?
your making more power with it , its more efficient , you dont need to put your foot down so much !
Isn't the only reason it doesn't feel as powerful (in normal daily driving) because it can run with more advance on the timing, so if you
keep the timing in the sweet spot for unleaded, when you switch to LPG, the engine will run (effectively) retarded? So either you train the ECU to
advance the timing when switching over or you run purely LPG and have the engine set up properly for that...
In theory I'd like to try a pure LPG setup in my car, but the whole track-day thing and availability are problems. 
Chris
quote:
Originally posted by iti_uk
Isn't the only reason it doesn't feel as powerful (in normal daily driving) because it can run with more advance on the timing,
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
There seems to be a general misconception that more advance=more power, which is incorrect. High octane fuels run in engines with lower CR's tend to burn more slowly, needing a little more advance, but the overall result could easily be less power than a lower octane fuel running with less advance.
The only way to extract the full benefit of high octane fuels on a normaly aspirated engine is to raise the compression ratio.
quote:
Originally posted by iti_uk
Isn't the only reason it doesn't feel as powerful (in normal daily driving) because it can run with more advance on the timing,
