beaver34
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 09:19 PM |
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rwd basics
hi there, abit of a strange post really, im new to rwd cars, only ever driven fwd cars in anger, and im wanting some basic do and dont that differ
from the fwd style of driving if that makes sense, last thing i want is to jump into something with 350 bhp per tonne ans make a mess, thanks alastair
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StevieB
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 09:21 PM |
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Take it easy in the wet and go to a few airfield trackdays where you can push the car and experiment with the handling/how much bottle you have in
relative safety.
I guess you should also bear in mind that if you push hard through a corner, you'll get oversteer rather than understeer.
[Edited on 27/5/09 by StevieB]
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snapper
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 09:35 PM |
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Mate of mine is in the same position, front wheel drive rep cars for years now has a Fisher Fury, nearly always exits a corner with a twitch.
Seems to go in the corner late and apply power early expecting the car to pull out.
You will probably end up going into a round a bout slower and exiting faster than you would in a front wheel drive
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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hobzy
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 09:36 PM |
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Take it from me they are not to be taken lightly, and can catch you out completely:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=114163
Motorsports-events (I think its them) do trackdays at airfields down south and at some of them have a no limits section separate from the track to
learn the limits of the car. After my Monday, I'll be doing just that - once the cars fixed.
They are so light that once they are sliding on a wet road you are really a passenger.
Still, they are flipping great fun though!
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austin man
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 09:44 PM |
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main thing to remember is pull them seat belts in tight and hold on.
Just take it easy and build up speed over a time and remember your being pushed not pulled its always handy to learn opposite lock.
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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zilspeed
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 10:08 PM |
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It's not just the RWD you have to watch out for.
It's the combination of RWD and light weight.
Think of it this way. Come barrelling into a slow corner in a FWD car and screw up your braking and do a clumsy downshift.
The weight will all go to the front and it'll slow and turn - no problem.
Do the same in a lightweight and RWD car and you're facing the wrong direction because you were still going too fast and the clumsy gearchange
locked the back wheels.
Braking properly, and shifting properly is much overlooked.
Get it right and all four wheels do theirecorrect share of the work - all the way into, through and out of the corner.
[Edited on 27/5/09 by zilspeed]
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hellbent345
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 10:25 PM |
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yep, as mentioned before, you will definately have got into the habit of flooring it if you get into a bit of sideways difficulty if you are a good
driver, or snapping the throttle closed if you get understeer or other slidey moments etc if you are relatively untrained - thats how every untrained
person apparently reacts, and why fwd cars are manufactures norm, because normal people are safer in them.
just get some training on an airfield or something, before you try and power out of corners  tried to do that when i had a sierra, gave too much,
slid too wide, snapped the throttle closed and it whipped back on me and i was fishtailing down the road lol
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blakep82
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 10:50 PM |
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if theres not trackdays (or too expensive), silly as it sounds, go karting can be useful. i've been karting since i was about 10, not racing,
and not every weekend or anything, but i've never had any problems in a rwd car i've not been able to sort out
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 10:57 PM |
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This might be frowned upon considering the other sensible trackday responses.
But if you can find a safe (ie empty) small to medium sized roundabout, then just see if your car will step out on you and 10, 20, 30, etc.
Please don't think I am suggesting the you lap it until you spin out - neither am I telling you to attack it at midnight every night for a week,
but I found that if I approached it in a predictable manner carefully building up my speed every now and again when I went round a specific
roundabout, it gave me a bit more confidence. Then the day that it did get a bit squirally , because I knew the road qute well, I wasn't as
daunted and just drove out of it ok.
Then the next time, went in at the same speed, set up for it to be a bit unsteady, and it didn't step out as I was ready for it etc.
Obviously this would be much better practiced on waste ground or an airfield TD, but as long as you go about it with a sensible approach, and I do
genuinely mean that!, then you should be ok.
I'll apologise now to all I offend by saying the above, but I do think there's a time and a place and sometimes it's ok, to push on
a little bit on the road...
ATB
Steve
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blakep82
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| posted on 27/5/09 at 11:43 PM |
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steve makes a good point actually, sometimes i go round big roundabouts like that when its quiet, just push a little bit til you feel the back start
to give.
also, while i understand what happened to hobzy, and there was a mentions on his thread about the dangers of diesel spills and industrial estates etc,
sometimes its worth going out to find the slippery bits.
its a lot less dangerous if you expect it to happen. when it snows (ok, you've got a long wait now) i always make a point of going out in the
snow.
all of my cars have always been rwd by the way. i can't stand fwd cars
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 12:58 AM |
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Not tried it yet, been in rwd cars on snow and stuff but never driven in anger at speed, but I agree with the deserted roundabout approach.
Anyone whos driven on a track will know the grip level is completely different, not only in the point at which grip is lost, but also in the way the
car responds afterwards.
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beaver34
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 06:53 AM |
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thanks guys for the input, ill take it steady corner wise for a while, and im sure ill find some deserted roundabout on the many industrial estates
there are around here
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britishtrident
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 07:12 AM |
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Slow in - fast out
Get all your braking finished with before the corner .
Foot off the brake and as nose starts to rise turn in on netral throttle
Then a very slight increase in power as you approach the apex.
Carefully start to feed more powrer in as you skim the apex.
Remember on most RWD cars slight increase in power gives you undrsteer (because it lifts weight off the front wheels).
Lots of power = oversteer because it unsticks the rear.
[Edited on 28/5/09 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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scudderfish
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 07:19 AM |
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http://www.carlimits.com
Very good.
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TimC
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 07:40 AM |
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Don't change down once you've turned in - ever.
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fesycresy
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 08:54 AM |
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Get a quick rack.
More chance of saving a big slide
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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peteday_uk@btinternet.com
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 09:23 AM |
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My first experience in a proper rear wheel drive car was in an NSX. I thought I was jonny big bo**ocks until I went into a left hand bend which went
into a right (for those that know Stoneleigh it on the approach to the show ground by the water works). I breaked in a straight line, then turned in.
What I didn't account for was the camber of the road, so as I went over the err hump/crest the rear end became unweighted, I turned in and held
it.....then panic set in so I lifted off (not break) just lifted off. That sent the arse in the other direction which I couldn't control, did a
complete 180. Didn't crash into anything but I was shaking like a sh*ting dog.
I'm not proud of what happened and fortunatly for me there were no other cars near me or else perhaps I wouldn't be typing this to you
now.
I now respect anything that is rear wheel drive and although I can't wait to finish the MK I am already feeling very nervous about driving
it.
Pete
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rb968
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 09:55 AM |
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I remember hearing a good adage (I think it was Jackie Stewart) of never getting on the throttle in a corner until you were sure you sure you
wouldn't have to come off it. As said above, get everything done before the corner (braking and downshifts) balanced throttle at turn in then
gradually feed in the power. The issue with sevens is always going to be the lack of weight at the rear meaning it can be more easily upset by bumps,
wheelspin, sudden inputs or power on/off etc. I would ditto that a trackday or airfield day [referably is the place to learn the limits.
Rich
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 11:18 AM |
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As said above:
1. Get your speed and gears right before the corner - you want the gear that'll take you all the way round the corner, if at all possible.
2. You'll want to be at a constant speed through, or accelerating if you're in a hurry, to keep the weight balanced.
3. Don't change gear half-way through a corner, unless you're VERY good - it'll upset the balance of the car, take the weight off
the back wheels and cause a spin if you're near the limit.
4. For the same reason, avoid braking half-way round a corner when on or near the limit. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but be prepared for the
back end shifting out if you do!
Saying all that - I have always preferred RWD as that's what I grew up with. It's much more enjoyable than FWD when you know how to
handle it instinctively.
Also as said above - find somewhere safe to play, and to get to know both the car's limits and your own.
Have fun!
P.S. an afterthought - don't go anywhere near the car's limits on the public road as these cars let go VERY quickly, and it's nice
to know that you aren't going to hit anything solid, or worse still, a bystander if everything goes wrong.
[Edited on 28/5/09 by David Jenkins]
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beaver34
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 07:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
Get a quick rack.
More chance of saving a big slide
got one of those, had a little rive tonight to a mates to get the car tracking done, had issues with the throttle, over bumper when coasting in first
i was proding the pedal and it was jearking like mad, but i think thats down to not really having to touch the pedal at all to get the car to move,
and the fact its on bike bodies and there used to hand controls, saying that ive had the engine in a fwd car and never had those issues really, either
way felt good!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 28/5/09 at 09:08 PM |
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Getting to know (and enjoy) the difference between handling and roadholding, and knowing that low profile tyres will improve one at the expense of the
other.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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