mistergrumpy
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 10:46 AM |
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Let Down Again
Well further to my wheel coming off the other week I've been let down by the cra again.
I went out in it a few nights ago and felt the clutch pedal kind of slip a bit and it developed free play in it so I came home and left it.
I had a look yesterday and there was some free play in the clutch actuating arm that comes out of the clutch cover. I played about with it and it
seemed to reposition itself with no free play so I oiled the cable whilst I was at it and took the missus for a spin again to try it out.
Got a few miles up the road, pressed the clutch and bang. It stuck to the bulkhead and we came to a halt and stalled it. I had a look at the side of
the road and the arm has been somehow over pulled so that the little notch has now widened at its shoulders. This is the 5th one at £16 each!
Fortunately I had an old one with me that I had welded and fettld with. This got me nearly home but thanks to a red traffic light gave up also so I
ended up pushing the thing with the missus in it up a side street and through a pathway that was bollarded before rolling back into my own street with
the hazards on.
Another let down on what I believe a really badly designed part 
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welderman
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 11:01 AM |
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 12:00 PM |
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Very frustrating for you, but don't give up hope.
Presumably these are relatively robust in the motorcyle, so:
Is it operated very differently in you car to the standard bike install, i.e. angle of pull?
Do you have a pedal stop?
You will sort it out.
Matt
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adithorp
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 12:27 PM |
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I'd be looking if, when the lever has reached the end of it's throw/stop, has the pedal still not hit it's stop. That would mean
you'd be putting extra force on the lever at every gear change. It wouldn't take long to break it.
have you got a photo of it?
adrian
ps. The common factor in your breakdowns is Mrs Grumpy....
[Edited on 23/8/10 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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02GF74
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 01:09 PM |
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post photo of the clutch are and where it is snapping - I am sure the locostbuilders collective brain should solve this one.
is it lack of endstops?
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 01:25 PM |
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I do now have a pedal stop due to the number of times I've been let down in the past. The pedal can't slip past it so I think that can be
ruled out.
The angle of the pull is different from the bike in that the cable is in a big spiral now but it is clamped by a holder on the lead to the clutch arm
so that a fairly straight pull is maintained there. I also have a Venhill cable which is super smooth.
Apart from the missus being the cause  my thoughts are :
Possible slight angle on the arm being pulled due to sticking cable nipple in the holder
Cable is secured around the engine bay with plastic P clips and it might have slipped a bit altering the cable
I'm still overpulling the arm slightly and need to alter the pedal stop further
I was thinking later on of trying to work out actually how much does the arm have to turn before the clutch would disengage and not drag. If I could
measure it on a running bike or else measure the travel of the pressure plate on the clutch basket.
I've no photos to hand as I'm off to bed again for a bit ready for nights and the neighbours on his drive ready to talk for England and I
can't risk that
Thanks for the tips though so far. It's disappointing as I was just building up some confidence in it and was thinking of my first big run out
to the Stafford show in a few weeks
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40inches
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 01:31 PM |
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I have set mine so the cable pulls in 15mm after the slack has been taken up, frees off nicely.
Think I got the info on LB a few years ago.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 01:42 PM |
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Cheers for that. Very helpful.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 29/8/10 at 08:56 PM |
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I've set it to 15mm now and when I press the clutch it'll engage but I get a bit of a horrible whirring so I think I'll let it back
to around 16mm-17mm but otherwise, yes. I had it set at 20mm.
I've welded and filed my old arms now so I've 5 as back up now
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 07:20 PM |
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Well resurrected this as I taxed and insured the car at the start of the month and have, over the Winter replaced the clutch pedal mount and redone
the interior and tarted the engine bay up so I've just tried to set the clutch cable up and nipped out for my first drive of the year and guess
what? Let down again!! For some reason I first couldn't select any other gear than 1st and then when I drove up an incline to roll backwards
and turn back, it didn't want to roll with the clutch depressed and stalled and that was it. Wouldn't start again. I pushed it for a while
then remembered that when I start it initially, after disconnecting the battery I have to firstly disconnect the rectifier, so I did it again and it
started up and I crawled back in 1st gear, then stalled at home!
I restarted but it felt like clutch plates were stuck and it kept lurching when I put it into 1st and stalling so it's back in the garage for
another day when I can be arsed again to look at it!
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r1_pete
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 07:30 PM |
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Sounds like you are not getting enough movement at the clutch actuator arm, to get maximum movement with minimum strain the actiating lever should be
at 90 degrees to cable with the clutch fully depresed. A little over 90 degrees is ok, but you don't want the two pulling nearly straight.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 07:33 PM |
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Yes I know. I carry 5 spares now due to past overpulling experiences.(!) I knackered another tonight setting it up when I went a bit too far so backed
off again. It feels alright one minute then it'll stick all of a sudden.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 07:46 PM |
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Are you sure the cable isn't frayed and snagging anywhere, or stretching?
Or another thought, is your engine earth ok? it could be earthing through the cable, result is when you start the car the cable gets hot, the plastic
coating melts, and causes sticking.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 07:50 PM |
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No cable clutch is fairly new still. A Venhill one with PTFE liner. Top piece of kit. Engine is earthed in 3 places!
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r1_pete
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 08:24 PM |
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Has to be the actuator then, have you checked the 'thrust bearing' end for wear, and hence not enough movement of the plates??
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 08:29 PM |
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Yep this has been checked a few times as I suspected the same too. That's why I'm confused.
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 08:35 PM |
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I'd be getting rid of the P clips and just letting the cable find it's own route, neither my Blade or R1 have any restraint on them and
they just gently curve from the clutch arm towards the radiator then towards the pedal in an nice gentle arc.
tony
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daviep
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 08:46 PM |
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I'b be posting some pictures of the clutch pedal and the cable mounting on the engine. There must be something fundamentally wrong with the
setup to be having so many issues.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/5/11 at 09:18 PM |
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Pictures!!
cmon man get them up so we can see and hopefully solve the problem. Many of us are not bike orientated so cannot envisage your problem.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 04:53 PM |
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I'll give it a try in a bit. I've a bit of an issue with the camera and computer but I'll get my tea then have a go. Thanks fellas.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 06:23 PM |
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Here goes with a few pictures. Had to take them on the mobile as the camera had a flat battery on top of the rest.
Here's the pedals. The cable comes through the bulkhead and is threaded through a bolt which is in turn through a hole in the bottom of the
pedal and is free to turn as the pedal is pressed. Not ideal but I haven't had any sort of mileage out of it to encourage it to snap and I hope
to alter this soon after seeing someone elses effort on here a few days ago.
Here's the engine bay from above. The clutch cable routing isn't clear but you can just about see it to the left of the picture running
above the red battery. It basically comes from the pedal and loops around at the front in a full circle and back onto the clutch arm.
Clutch arm sticking out of clutch case with cable attached. I have it pulling towards the left somewhere between 17mm-20mm. I'd like to alter
this as the cable nipple is tight in the arm and of a different shape to the original part which had a neck to it and stopped it jumping out of the
mounting point. Hence the reason I put a cable tie around it to stop it jumping out. I don't normally have it coming out of that bolt on the
left at such an angle, it's normally straight out so it doesn't rub.
This is the shape of the clutch arm. It runs inside the clutch case which has a needle bearing set up at the top and at the bottom (basically either
side of that waisted portion) to stop it jumping around and you can see the notch in the end (this one being overpulled and enlarged). This notch goes
over an actuator which has a top hat shape on the end and it pulls against the hat rim and separates the plates.
Here is a comparison of two clutch arms. The top being a good one with a straight notch, the bottom being overpulled and the notch is enlarged.
The cable itself is a Venhill and smooth as you like and the pedal mount has been redone to alter the ratio so theres less chance of overpulling and I
have a pedal stop fitted.
As I said for some reason, all of a sudden after sitting during Winter I can't select any gear above 2nd whilst moving. It doesn't roll
back with the clutch depressed without stalling. The biggest problem then being that if I hold the clutch down and press a false neutral button I have
fitted to fool the car into thinking it's in neutral. I press the start button and it lurches like the clutch isn't disengaged.
Any thoughts would help as I don't have time to prod about until tomorrow evening.
Thanks
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 06:31 PM |
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have you used one of those vhs recorders to get that sort of quality?
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 06:56 PM |
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If you're using a barrel type solderless nipple at the clutch end try filling a flat on the top and bottom to get it to sit in the holder,
nothing wrong with mounting it that way, mines like that and has been for 4 years with no probs,
Have you by any chance changed the clutch plates or springs, if so would suggest you revert back just to see what happens, had a similar problem with
the Blade once when I fitted heavy duty springs .
Tony
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Hellfire
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 07:11 PM |
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Could it be a fault with the clutch itself? It might be worth stripping the clutch down, checking and inspecting all the components and ensuring
it's assembled correctly. Something's not quite right and it doesn't sound like a cable or actuator issue....
Phil
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 26/5/11 at 08:00 PM |
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It is a barrel solderless nipple. I have filed it down a bit but will do it a bit more thanks.
I have uprated the clutch springs, yes, to Barnett ones. This did cross my mind as an aggravating factor.
The clutch plates have been taken off and the basket and stuff inspected literally somewhere around 7-10 times due to another problem I had in the
past which I solved and I know it's all been reassembled correctly.
I'm wondering whether to just bite the bullet and open the clutch case up again tomorrow evening and take a look inside and maybe change the
clutch springs back over to the originals.
It just seems strange that the plates are feeling stuck after running fine for a short distance and the gears not changing.
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