dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 11:56 AM |
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First post - standing start
Hi.
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this but it seems the most appropriate place so I'll get stuck in.
I've just sold my westfield Se live axle car which had a 1700 xflow with twin 40s which I loved but struggled to fit in. I've got
'permission' from my wife to get stuck in to building a locost... I bought the book(s) years ago and keep making excuses not to start but
now is the time.
I have no welding experience yet but am willing and genuinely want to learn how do weld. I have plenty of car maint skills mostly gained from
maintaining my old tvr s3 (having removed the engine and gearbox in order to get the box reconditioned) and my old westfield se.
I'd like to build a car very much like the westfield I had but with a bit more legroom and possibly slightly wider. The issue I had with the
westfield is that my left hand while on the wheel would foul against my left knee while cornering. I appreciate that I can position the pedals and
wheel where I like on the locost but feel a bit more room would be nice. My westy was a post-lit narrow body car and presumably must be about the same
size as the book chassis (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I'd like a live axle, a 5 speed gearbox, LSD and a zetec (either 1.8 or 2.0) engine. I'm currently planning to build my own throttle
bodies using the article in practical performance something or other magazine and would very much like to build my own engine management system using
the megasquirt gubbins I've heard so much about. The car will be used for fun on the roads (so must be SVA'able) and for drifting days and
track days and if I really get keen maybe some sprinting.
Anyway, my main question is what chassis plans and which donor (I guess these questions are pretty much tied together). I was thinking of a capri LSD
rear axle so are there any plans that would work with that or do I need to do some work modifying the book plans for myself. Is there really any need
to go out and buy a single donor or, given that I won't be using the donor engine, can I simply go out and buy the components I need? I can see
that if I bought a capri I'd get the axle, hubs and gearbox but given that the gearbox and axle will probably need rebuilding or at least some
attention wouldn't it be a false economy to save money buying a rusty capri to dismantle rather than simply buying second hand or reconditioned
parts? The other things putting me off buying a donor is that firstly I'd have to dismantle the donor on the drive which would take up space and
generally get in the way (it's like butterflies - remember that? - at our place sometimes moving cars around to get kayaks and bikes out of
garages/sheds) and secondly I'd have to store all the bits until I needed them. I'd also have to dispose of the stripped rusting hulk. If
I bought the bits when I needed them I'd solve all these problems although I suspect it may cost me slightly more (not much more though, surely?
especially as I plan to buy the engine seperately).
Sorry for the long post and I very much look forward to any opinions anyone may have and am happy to have my preconceptions of what is sensible and
reasonable shot down 
All the best,
Mark
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James
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 12:53 PM |
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Firstly, welcome to the madhouse!
Your ideas sound fine. I plan to play with megasquirt at some point myself.
As far as the donor bits go- getting a donor as it's advantages and disadvantages as you mention. You mention the Capri hubs but these
aren't any good to you AFAIK- you'll need Cortina fronts.
The Capri axle has a LSD in the 2.8 version (IIRC) but I'm pretty sure you can get LSD kits for MK2 Escort axles although I doubt they're
cheap!
Have you thought about using a Sierra donor? With a cheap kit from GTS you can have a De Dion back end which is meant to be a pretty good setup. You
can then use the Sierra gearbox mated to your Zetec. The back end of a 4x4 Sierra is LSD too.
Hope that helps,
James
P.S. Where in Berkshire are you?
[Edited on 28/7/04 by James]
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dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 01:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Firstly, welcome to the madhouse!
Thank you  quote:
Your ideas sound fine. I plan to play with megasquirt at some point myself.
It
does look fun doesn't it?quote:
As far as the donor bits go- getting a donor as it's advantages and disadvantages as you mention. You
mention the Capri hubs but these aren't any good to you AFAIK- you'll need Cortina fronts.
The Capri axle has a LSD in the 2.8 version (IIRC) but I'm pretty sure you can get LSD kits for MK2 Escort axles although I doubt they're
cheap!
Have you thought about using a Sierra donor? With a cheap kit from GTS you can have a De Dion back end which is meant to be a pretty good setup. You
can then use the Sierra gearbox mated to your Zetec. The back end of a 4x4 Sierra is LSD too.
Hope that helps,
It does indeed... ooo blimey, more options to think about.
If I were to go for a slightly wider chassis ( say 2" ) but still use an escort axle could I 'pad out' the extra inch either side
with different wheel offsets or possibly spacers and still have a strong axle?
I had considered getting an old english/escort axle and fitting a quaiffe ATB st 400-500 quid. Not cheap as you say but it won't break and
require a rebuild at pretty much the same (or higher) rate as an old LSD. Then all I'd need to do is change the bearings and fit and forget
it.quote:
P.S. Where in Berkshire are you?
Just outside Thatcham, Newbury.
Regards,
Mark
[Edited on 28/7/04 by dern]
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dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 02:06 PM |
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Would the "Locost Related" forum be a more appropriate place for this level of 'just starting out' questions?
Thanks,
Mark
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James
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 02:25 PM |
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Nah, I think Donor Cars is a good section for discussing which donor you want! 
You can use spacers on the car- Jasper and Hicost both had them on theirs for awhile.
For a 'book' chassis the Escort axle is itself a little narrow (you tend to get the 'caravanning' look) which, along with
their rarity is the reason that a Cortina donor is often suggested- it's more common than the Escort, the rear axle is wider (4" if I
recall correctly) and you get the front hubs you need.
Problem is, I doubt you'll get the diff internals you're after!
If you're gonna widen the chassis then you're entering a whole extra world of pain and I suggest to tread (and research!) very carefully!
My car is wider (and IRS) and all the fiddling about had cost me plenty of time. The 'standard' widening to go for is 4".
Before you start the chassis you should get a correct set of plans and cutting list as the book list is full of errors.
http://www.mcsorley.net is the place to go for this. It has +4" plans as well.
Anywya, I expect it's all clear as mud now so I'll stop writing!
James
P.S. I know it's 50miles or so but 1st Sunday of the month is you local Locostbuilders meet at Newlands Corner (just outside Guildford).
You're very welcome to come along and ask these questions in person. That way you'll meet 20 other builders and we can give you 21
different opinions on how to go about doing it!
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dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 02:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Nah, I think Donor Cars is a good section for discussing which donor you want!
Sorry... just exposed a fundamental character flaw -
impatience Thanks for the advice... I'll do some more measuring and research.quote:
P.S. I know it's 50miles or so but 1st Sunday of
the month is you local Locostbuilders meet at Newlands Corner (just outside Guildford). You're very welcome to come along and ask these
questions in person. That way you'll meet 20 other builders and we can give you 21 different opinions on how to go about doing it!
Sounds great, will do. It'll hopefully be a good opportunity to blag a sit in some cars to try for fit. It'll probably be next
month though due to an impending holiday. I'll keep an eye on the events forum for details.
Thanks once again.
Regards,
Mark
[Edited on 28/7/04 by dern]
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phelpsa
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 03:38 PM |
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Hi dern,
I am based just west of Newbury near Hungerford, a village called Great Shefford. If you want to come around and have a look at mine at any time you
are welcome to.
Adam
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dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Hi dern,
I am based just west of Newbury near Hungerford, a village called Great Shefford. If you want to come around and have a look at mine at any time you
are welcome to.
Adam
Thanks Adam, I'd love to. I'm off on holiday this weekend but will drop you a line when I get back.
All the best,
Mark
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derf
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 05:24 PM |
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I hate to give good Ideas after the fact, but did you ever think of widening the wesfield? at the same time that the car is in pieces you can widen
the frame, switch to a live axle, and update to a Zetec, depending on how much you sold it for, and how much the locost will cost you could save some
$$$
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dern
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| posted on 28/7/04 at 08:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by derf
I hate to give good Ideas after the fact, but did you ever think of widening the wesfield? at the same time that the car is in pieces you can widen
the frame, switch to a live axle, and update to a Zetec, depending on how much you sold it for, and how much the locost will cost you could save some
$$$
In order to do this I would have had to widen it and lenthen it which would mean stripping the whole thing down, modifying the chassis and
rebuilding. All of the bodywork would need modifying and respraying too. It already was live axle so I'd have to bin the english axle I had and
put in a new wider axle. I'd also have had to retrim the car, making a new dash and so on. It would have cost a small fortune and would have
reduced its value to next to nothing because who ever wanted a westfield wouldn't, I suspect, want one that had been modified to this extent...
you could go out and buy a widebody for a couple of thousand more.
Quite apart from all this I simply want to build a locost.
I got 5000 pounds for the westy (slightly more than I paid for it which covered maintenance for the year) which gives me 5000 for a locost build which
should be enough I would have thought.
Regards,
Mark
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 07:18 AM |
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£5000 will be easy if your building your own chassis. I may even be nearer £3000 making my hillclimb car which has plenty of expensive, unnessecary
(never been able to spell that word) parts for a road car.
Adam
P.S. Dern, I won't be at home on a weekend untill september.
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dern
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 09:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
£5000 will be easy if your building your own chassis. I may even be nearer £3000 making my hillclimb car which has plenty of expensive, unnessecary
(never been able to spell that word) parts for a road car.
Cool Is that 3k including the bike engine?!quote:
P.S. Dern, I won't be
at home on a weekend untill september.
Ok, no worries. I'm not really in a position to start right now as I have to take the family on
holiday next week, then build a shed to put the stuff that's currently in the garage in to, then clear the garage, sort out an avatar and then
learn to weld... it doesn't quite satisfy my normal requirement for instant gratification but I guess I'll have to get used to it over the
build
All the best,
Mark
[Edited on 29/7/04 by dern]
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 09:09 AM |
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Patience is the key (i've been going 18 months and I don't even have a rolling chassis).
Adam
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blueshift
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 10:27 AM |
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Same here, 14 months or so, only just getting to rolling chassis stage.
You'll save a lot of time and hassle if you buy reconditioned parts - but they'll cost you a lot more. Our sierra 4x4 cost us £6.50, and
sold the engine and gearbox for £100..
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 11:07 AM |
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To get me going I bought a set of 13x7 Compomotive MS wheels which were the wrong PCD for £40. The guy I bought them off didn't realise ho
sought after these wheels were so I got an absolute bargain, they were worth at least £200. I then ended up selling them for £120 to a guy who thought
he'd had an absolute bargain. The ultimate of good luck.
The moral of the story, if you see something thats a bargain, snap it up straight away, there is money to be made.
I bought all my parts reconditioned, a lot easier.
Adam
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JoelP
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| posted on 29/7/04 at 06:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dern
...sort out an avatar...
get your priorities right!!! avatars are the most important bit, so get one NOW!!!!
ps, mine was taken a few years ago, hence the lack of stubble...
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