ferny
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 09:06 AM |
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Trying to make my mind up.
Hi all. This site has been recommended to me loads of times and flicking around I see a few people I recognise.
I'll keep it short and simple. For a while I've been planning to fit a 2.0lt Zetec engine to my Herald but time and money always gets in
the way. This Saturday on the way to a car show my oil cooler decided to assist me in doing some rust prevention to my car. I think I may have
saved the engine but I'm not fully sure yet. Anyhoo, it's prompted me to get on with the transplant as soon as possible. The reason for
the Ford route is that others have and are doing it already so I've got a bit of knowledge I can tap into. But, something about it has always
failed to excite me. People have suggested an MX5 engine before and again, having driven a few and been rather unimpressed I'm not keen on them.
But, the reality of the extra costs involved in buying the Ford engine, gearbox etc and the time it'd take to fit one I've found myself
trying to learn about the MX5 option this morning. The prospect of fitting an engine and gearbox together appeals massively right now. Money is tight
and going to get tighter in the next few months and the car is my daily driver so needs to be completed as quick as possible. I'm talking
a weekends work or as close to that as possible!
So, can anyone offer advice? Fabrication shouldn't be a problem and only end up being an annoying addition to time required. My concerns are
costs and electrics. I'd love to be able to rip the loom, engine and gearbox out of an MX5 and fit it in to fire it up but I'm worried
that due to missing components and sensors that'd make it more awkward.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 09:42 AM |
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Either of those options will be pushing the herald chassis, suspension and brakes to it's limit - anything more exciting and you will need to
spend loads on upgrading all of these.
welcome to the forum by the way 
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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blakep82
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 10:08 AM |
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Ford zetec for me out of those two. I think the mx5 makes a good all round doner (using the whole drivetrain) but I also found the engine in the 2
litre sport model, incedibly dull, and wheezy, and after about 3k rpm when power should start, it was already out and made a noise like an empty
biscuit tin..
Zetec has been used a lot on here, in many different configurations / set ups, so youll find someone on here thats done anything you ever plan on
doing to it. I think theres a lot more tuning options around for it too, if thats your game.
I'd go zetec myself
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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designer
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 10:29 AM |
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The Ford is the far easier option of the two.
But you need to do a lot to the Herald to get it to cope properly with a lot more power.
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ferny
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 11:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
Either of those options will be pushing the herald chassis, suspension and brakes to it's limit - anything more exciting and you will need to
spend loads on upgrading all of these.
welcome to the forum by the way
Car isn't standard with a few selected tweaks.
Front suspension current has 500lb springs and is just over an inch lower, Maxtorq discs, Pagid fast roads pads which I can't wait to remove and
refit some Mintex (see below photo from Saturday for proof that they're now ready for the bin!) and the anti-roll bar is removed. Solid engine
mounts after a mixture of my driving style and poor quality of new parts saw them failing quickly. Rear has a 1" lowing block and the plan is
for a Subara LSD and CV joints but that's on the back burner now! Plus lots of other bits and bobs and farts and bodges scattered around the
car. It's proven itself to be able to out-brake modern Mercedes' and has been timed as being faster around the twisties than cars with
almost twice its power. The Herald chassis isn't too far removed from a Spitfire one and they can all take far more than people suspect.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/ferny/20130302_141704_zps36e5a809.jpg
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
Ford zetec for me out of those two. I think the mx5 makes a good all round doner (using the whole drivetrain) but I also found the engine in the 2
litre sport model, incedibly dull, and wheezy, and after about 3k rpm when power should start, it was already out and made a noise like an empty
biscuit tin..
Zetec has been used a lot on here, in many different configurations / set ups, so youll find someone on here thats done anything you ever plan on
doing to it. I think theres a lot more tuning options around for it too, if thats your game.
I'd go zetec myself
You're possibly the only person to agree with me about the lack of oomph in the MX5! I've driven the 1.8 and 2.0lt models. However, I did
navigate on an autotest in one and in anger it surprised me.
quote:
Originally posted by designer
The Ford is the far easier option of the two.
But you need to do a lot to the Herald to get it to cope properly with a lot more power.
How comes it's easier? I'm aware of some of the effort needed in putting the Ford in but on paper at least the MX5 option seems easer. No
faffing with mating the type-9 with a FWD engine, no need to play with the exhaust or induction, etc. But, that's what I'm trying to find
out. In my head and without measurements it seems a quicker job with less need to aquire parts over a period of time, which is unfortunately a
requirement right now. I can also get an engine and gearbox from an MX5 for the cost of a Ford engine.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 12:37 PM |
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IMO the MX5 lump makes a lot more sense in this instance. The gearbox and clutch all come together as a properly engineered solution, and the gearbox
is a far nicer unit than the notchy old Type 9. It's a very strong, well proven engine and if you fancy more power then bolt on supercharger or
turbocharger kits are readily available.
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 01:10 PM |
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Years ago, someone fitted a Jag 6-cyl engine into a Vitesse chassis. (As reported in Hot Car mag, May '69).
So I reckon that the T9 g/box will fit fairly easily, together with a Zetec. Might need to re-work the forward tunnel cover, for the new g/box
profile, and possibly new engine mounts wil have to be fabricated.
Keep us posted on your project.
[Edited on 4/3/13 by Dick Axtell]
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 01:13 PM |
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+1 for an MX5 transplant.
I am running a Ford Pinto and type 9 in my Indy because thats what was in it but when i was planning to build a Haynes Roadster from scratch i spent
some time weighing up all the options and decided an Mx5 engine and gearbox was the way to go.
No need to chase about for bellhousing adapters and clutch plates.
Ability to retain the donor's robust fuel injection and ignition.
Relatively light and compact.
Good mechanical longevity.
As you may have read elsewhere:
[In the Mark 1 MX5's ]
The 1.6 came in 2 states of tune; early ones (and all Japanese imports) being 115 bhp+ and the later UK spec 1.6s were 90bhp
The 1.8s were round about 130 bhp
The turbo charger from a (BMW) Mini Cooper can be made to fit in case you ever get bored.
The MX5 gearbox is wider than a Ford type 9, it's similar to the width of a Ford MT75 box. You would need to check this against the dimensions
of the Herald to ensure this woud fit once youve established how for fore or aft the engine is to be mounted.
I rebuilt a Herald many years ago and if i ever do another one would certainly use MX5 bits.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 4/3/13 at 07:36 PM |
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What engine do you have in it now and what is the end goal ( more power , better MPG etc ?)?, for ease of fitment how about the Vitesse motor, same
chassis and gearbox fitment pattern, I used to race a Vit, with a tuned 2.5 in it with a LSD, worked very well but mods are needed to the stock rear
susp to get it to go around corners properly.
[Edited on 4/3/13 by Westy1994]
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ferny
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| posted on 5/3/13 at 06:21 AM |
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Ta for the extra info. I'm going to try and dig to find out about the different engine specs. I'm not going to fit a 90bhp when
there's a 130bhp option! 
One thing I've learned is that although I can use the whole loom from the car if it's a UK spec one you have to keep the keys, immobiliser
etc or it won't fire. But a US spec car doesn't have that problem. I wasn't aware the gearbox was wider than the type-9. I think
there's a Spitfire with MX5 running gear but it's an auto. Anything can be made to fit in these cars...
Got the cooler off and it's wrecked so it's been bypased to reveal about 7lb at warm tickover so it's no well. Still, I've put
in some asbestos brake pads to replace the oil soaked ones and will be using it to get to work again this morning.
Zero chance of me fitting a 6-pot in it. The car is nice and nimble and I don't want a boat anchor up front! I've got a mk1 2000 sitting
in a garage waiting for me do replace the sills. I do miss it's engine - small bearing and revvy version. 
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RK
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| posted on 5/3/13 at 01:21 PM |
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Anecdotally, people complain of lack of excitement in the MX5, but I am sure they are the cheaper/easier solution. I do know the ECU in some of them
(the 1.8?) has to be modded or changed, to get around the immobiliser. No personal experience, just giving internet advice, which we all know is
useless. Everyone thinks the MX5 is good for someone else, but their drivers always want to change cars or upgrade something to get more power.
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Tazzzzman1
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| posted on 5/3/13 at 04:50 PM |
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Forget trying to modify the MX5 ECU it can not be done.....the MX5 immobiliser was years ahead of it time and can not be bypassed. I know this because
I fell foul of this issue on my build. After spending several months and speaking with industry experts from US and Germany, and after attempting a
painful re-wire of plugs , decided that it was easier to re-do using a non UK spec wiring harness.
You do not have to worry about sensors missed off etc. The engine loom incorporates all engine sensors and doesn't really need modifying. Rest
of the loom is pretty straight forward.
The MX5 lump IMHO is the way to go. You should be able to pick up engine and gearbox from a MK1 for approx £300. And the engine is easliy upgradeable
for more power as it is designed with Turbo/ super charger in mind (no expensive internal mods required.
I am about to embark on the Supercharge route and aim for 200+bhp 
HTH
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