ADD
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 11:29 AM |
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Engine height
 
gearbox line up
Hi All,
As you can see due to my change of plan I now have an engine height issue.
Has anyone else tried fitting a tall engine. If so how have you got round the problem?
Or do you think that it will be OK and will just have to sit on a cusion!.
Cheers
Adam
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Ketchup
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 11:36 AM |
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whoa.. u may need a periscope!
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rayward
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 11:36 AM |
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gonna need a BIGGGGG hole in your bonnet
Ray
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 11:40 AM |
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Now that's what I call a lump ! 
You could always lower it and fit24" rims for sump clearance.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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kb58
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 01:50 PM |
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<Crosses arms, rolls eyes, shakes head, taps foot of garage floor...>
Geez, does anyone ever thing to measure stuff first? It's not like a Locost is a fully-baked, completely-researched, guaranteed-to-fit,
screw-it-together-in-the-dark kind of kit.
You as designer... yes, designer, have to measure stuff. Yes, some brain work needs to go into these things; nothing is completely engineered for
you ahead of time.
So much for stating the obvious, in hindsight. All lecturing aside, thanks for posting the picture, it's a valuable lession learned, for
everyone.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 02:10 PM |
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OK - we're all taking the mickey, or giving lectures, but it doesn't help Adam much - it would be more useful to him if we could offer
solutions (even if it ends up as "use a different engine" ).
Adam - a good side-on picture would be useful so that we can see if it's as low down as possible.
Can any of those bits on top be removed and placed elsewhere?
What is that engine anyway? Folks have certainly fitted V8s before (e.g. the Rover/Buick lump) but that one looks very tall. Even the Dax needs a
hole in the bonnet/hood.
cheers,
David
(who isn't really trying to upset anyone... not today, anyway! )
[Edited on 18/7/06 by David Jenkins]
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clbarclay
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 02:47 PM |
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The engine looks like a v6 given the angle between the 2 banks of cylinders, though exact engine details would be nice
V8s have the cylinder banks angled further apart, which generally makes them slightly wider, but not so tall.
Various otions for you to consider.
1 find a different engine to use
2 Build a new chassis thats taller to acomidate the engine.
3 Some manuthactures make slightly taller fibre glass than others, but only by an inch or 2 so probably won't be enough
4 Start designing a big bonnet bulge or vent. In the second edition book there is a picture of a locost using a rover v8 that has a big bonnet
bulge/vent to accomidate the engine.
5 Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you can have the engine sticking out of the bonnet for SVA, but it must comply with all the sharp edges
etc. like the rest of the body work and exhaust.
[Edited on 18/7/06 by clbarclay]
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ADD
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 03:15 PM |
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I know, I know. I did measure it all first, realised it was going to be big and said sod lets just deal with the cociquences when I get that far.
The engine is 1 24V 2.9 Cosworth lump from a granada scorpio.
Its got an ally sump with groves up the sides to accomodate the bolts so very difficult to shorten the sump.
In the picture the chassis is raised and inch and the sump is on the deck.
I am thinking of putting an extra rail around the top of the engine bay, making the nose cone taller (cut and shut) and placing bonnet on top of the
raised section.
what do you rekon?
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graememk
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 03:33 PM |
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6" of foam rubber to sit on or look for another engine as that just isnt going to fit.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 03:42 PM |
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Doug (a.k.a. garage19) has a decent 2.0 litre zetec for sale... (or did, a week or so ago) and that's just south of Ipswich.
David
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leto
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 03:47 PM |
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It will still be tall, you will lose the proportions of the car and it might look strange.
Cut the sump or make a new one. A high scoop is properly better than a high bonnet.
“I'm gonna ride around in style
I'm gonna drive everybody wild
'Cause I'll have the only one there is a round”. (J. Cash)
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Marcus
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 04:01 PM |
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The sump should still be reasonably easily modified - just weld it on the inside.
That should give you an inch or 2. Build the sides of the chassis up another inch, and drop the engine a further 1/2 inch - you may be somewhere
close.
Go for it
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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Alan_Thomas
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 04:05 PM |
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Seriously, If you are planning to SVA you will never get the sight lines required, you are either going to have to use a 'dining room
chair' as a seat or think again about the choice of engine. You will never get enough height reduction however you chop the sump (dry sumping
would make the most difference but still nowhere enough).
Lovely engine - perhaps you should change the type of car you are building!
- Alan
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kb58
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 04:19 PM |
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Okay, I'll be more helpful...
I don't think the sump should be cut down... it's the last thing to do with an engine that's going to see high G-forces. A dry-sump
is the best (though expensive) solution, and might be needed anyway. You can raise the sides of the car as mentioned, add a big scoop... geez,
it's a small car man!
Worst case, without giving up on your dream entirely, would be to trade that engine for another V6 that's a lot shorter.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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zetec7
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 06:55 PM |
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I'd suggest another engine choice. Aside from the sight-line issue, body design issue, weight distribution issue, etc., the centre of gravity
is going to be very high. The car might be very tippy indeed. The Zetec is only 24" high...
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DIY Si
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 06:58 PM |
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As Hellfire seems to be a little slow off the blocks today, may I suggest a nice bike engine? Nice and low, and light, and more than fast enough.
See the York drag day results.
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ADD
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 07:28 PM |
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OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
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locostv8
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| posted on 18/7/06 at 11:49 PM |
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Here is a thread on shortning t aloy sump whilde not reducing the volume. http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=46627&page=2
Something else I would think could be done is move the coil pack and whittle down or fab a new intake. This wouldn't work for your engine but
these are what I'm doing for a 351 Ford, possibly something similar could be done to at least limit the lump to the center of the hood, oops
bonnet. Pointing the throttle body toward the firewall.
http://wrangler.rutgers.edu/gallery2/v/7slotgrille/hssss/
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clbarclay
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| posted on 19/7/06 at 09:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
In any 7 style car you sit a lot lower than most road cars. Imagine sitting in your car when its finished and not being able to see the road in front
over the bonnet because the engine too tall.
If you can try sitting in another 7 style car with a friend to hold a piece of wood etc. at the same height as your engine will come (with and without
shortening) and see how much it would affect the visibility.
[Edited on 19/7/06 by clbarclay]
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Alan_Thomas
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| posted on 19/7/06 at 04:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
When I took my SVA test the tester sat in the car and tested (in his words) that he had "unimpeded forward vision"
- alan
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wilkingj
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| posted on 19/7/06 at 06:51 PM |
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Get a Viento Chassis... It would look lost in the engine bay
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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MustangSix
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| posted on 19/7/06 at 08:13 PM |
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I think you have the eingine mocked up too high. It appears that the crank centerline is very high and the transmission output is very close to the
top of the tunnel.
I may be wrong, because the photo is at an angle and difficult to accurately judge, but I think you should try a mock up with the chassis at least
another inch or two higher relative to the drivetrain.
You will certainly lose some ground clearance, but you should still have enough.
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Simon
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| posted on 19/7/06 at 11:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
Section 8 - Glazing, of the SVA manual states:
1. Check that, when seated in the driving position, the driver has a full unobstructed view of the road to the front and forward of the nearside and
offside of the vehicle. The lower edge of the forward field of view must not be above the "windscreen horizontal plane" as defined in the
annex to Section 2 (Defrosting/Demisting) of this manual.
Annex to Section 2 (Defrosting/Demisting) says:
Take note of it!!!!!!!!!!! I had to cut 2" from the top of my bonnet between test and retest!!
Should be clear as mud now!!
I would suggest you drop your engine by another couple of inches at least. I have about 1.5" ground clearance and a sump guard about 1/4"
lower. Latter takes a bit of bashing
HTH
ATB
Simon
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/7/06 at 10:24 AM |
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Good grief!
You'll need to stand up to drive that fecker . Get a Cobra to fit it in or build a hot rod, you are missing the point of the car.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ADD
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| posted on 20/7/06 at 11:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
You'll need to stand up to drive that fecker . Get a Cobra to fit it in or build a hot rod, you are missing the point of the car.
Exactly what is the point of MY car then!! In my eyes the point of my car is to enjoy building it, learn some new skills. If you are talking about the
lowcost, low-weight aspect of it then I am afriad that is all lost on me!. However, the car as it stands at the mo only cost me about £500 this
includes all the running gear, all I need is some ali sheet and seats. And I only weigh in at 57KGs so I have a big weight advantage before I even
started.
Anyway, I think the decision is to raise the chasiss in relation to the engine and aim for 3 inch sump to ground clearance.
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